In September 1992, 20-year-old Acadia University student Kenley Matheson vanished without a trace. Only two weeks into his first semester, Kenley's new friend Tom Gordon spots Kenley walking on the streets of Wolfville, Nova Scotia the evening of September 21 for the final time. What happened after this alleged sighting has been a mystery for over thirty years. In the time since Kenley went missing, several theories have emerged (some plausible and others shocking).
In the second part of our season four finale, we discuss the theory that Kenley had been murdered by a fellow Acadia student in 1992 when a family comes forward with what seems like promising information. Multiple theories are uncovered about where Kenley's remains can be found. Will Kenley's family finally have answers?
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If you have any information regarding Kenley Matheson's whereabouts or anything pertaining to his disappearance, please contact Ron Lamothe, the director of 'Missing Kenley' at ron@missingkenley.com.
EPISODE RESOURCES:
"Missing Kenley" (Amazon Prime Documentary):
https://www.primevideo.com/detail/MissingKenley/0N2H9PCPFW4RUK2R5FZGC0T3CR
In September 1992, 20-year-old Acadia University student Kenley Matheson vanished without a trace. Only two weeks into his first semester, Kenley's new friend Tom Gordon spots Kenley walking on the streets of Wolfville, Nova Scotia the evening of September 21 for the final time. What happened after this alleged sighting has been a mystery for over thirty years. In the time since Kenley went missing, several theories have emerged (some plausible and others shocking).
In the second part of our season four finale, we discuss the theory that Kenley had been murdered by a fellow Acadia student in 1992 when a family comes forward with what seems like promising information. Multiple theories are uncovered about where Kenley's remains can be found. Will Kenley's family finally have answers?
FIND US ON SOCIAL MEDIA:
Instagram: @crimefamilypodcast
Twitter: @crimefamilypod1
Facebook: Crime Family Podcast
Email: crimefamilypodcast@gmail.com
Become a patron here:
https://www.patreon.com/Crimefamilypodcast
Get your Crime Family Merch here: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/123775076
If you have any information regarding Kenley Matheson's whereabouts or anything pertaining to his disappearance, please contact Ron Lamothe, the director of 'Missing Kenley' at ron@missingkenley.com.
EPISODE RESOURCES:
"Missing Kenley" (Amazon Prime Documentary):
https://www.primevideo.com/detail/MissingKenley/0N2H9PCPFW4RUK2R5FZGC0T3CR
Katie: Coming up on this episode of Crime Family
AJ: and we are continuing our finale episode. We're gonna do part two. We've been discussing the Kenley Matheson case. So in this second part we're gonna be talking about, you know, a major turn in the investigation.
Katie: This is like the biggest break they've had so far in this case, and she's just kind of, you know, probably very hopeful that this is it.
AJ: Aaron is a spirit that came down and killed Jason. These are the words that Toby says that Aaron uses. The spirit came down and killed Jason and replaced Jason with Aaron. You know, where there is smoke, there's fire. For there to be that many people pointing the finger, I feel like something had to have happened.
So the theory is maybe Aaron said to her, he messed with the wrong guy's girlfriend and they'll never find the body
Katie: And sad she's out there looking under rocks and thinking about the caves and, I don't know. It's, it's just super sad,
AJ: Super sad. Just mysterious and overall perplexing. I can't relate. Just confusing to me.
Hey everyone. Welcome back to Crime Family. I'm your co-host, AJ, and I'm here with Stephanie and Katie, my sisters as always. And we are continuing our finale episode. We're gonna do part two. We've been discussing the Kenley Matheson case. We discussed, you know, a lot of different theories, and possibilities about his disappearance that's still unsolved. So in this second part we're gonna be talking about, you know, a major turn in the investigation, based on the documentary called Missing Kenley. So the last two episodes of that documentary are really about this new theory that comes up with new information. We're gonna dive into that and talk about all of our theories and everything else about this case that we wanna discuss. Thanks so much for tuning in, and Katie's gonna start off this episode with some notes on the new turn of events.
Katie: Hey, yeah. So I'm just gonna jump right in, right where we left off. Like we had said in the first part, this documentary spanned 10 years until this new information comes in, in the summer of 2016.
So in June of 2016, two sisters from the Wolfville area had come forward to the private investigator who was now on the case, and his name was Tom Martin. Neither of them wanted to talk to the police and that's why they had reached out to the PI. One of them had called Crime Stoppers about this and gave them an anonymous tip, but Crime Stoppers really was not interested in what they had to say, and nothing ever came from that, and so that's why they reached out to the PI as well. So the two sisters who are the ones that have come forward, they have a third sister who did not want to talk to the PI. This third sister isn't in the documentary, she's just mentioned, and this sister had a son who was the subject of all the accusations that these other two witnesses were making.
So the two sisters were Sandy and Selena, their other sister was Suzanne, and they also had a brother named Randy and Suzanne's son, who was the subject of all of this, his name was Jason Kenny, but then he had changed his name. He became a trans woman and now Jason goes by Aaron Smith. So when all this comes out, we don't really know a lot of the details, but it starts with Sarah, Kenleys mom calling the RCMP and telling them she found Kenley, and she just needed them to help her secure the site and get his remains and not let this family know that we are suspecting them. So you get this excitement that, oh, they've figured out what happened. Even though you realize quickly that she may have jumped the gun by saying that she knows where Kenley is, but you get it. I mean this is the biggest break they've had so far in this case, and she's just you know, probably very hopeful that this is it and determined to see this through. So Tom, the PI talks to them. He sits Sarah and Kyrene down, and he says that he believes that the claims that this family is making are truthful because he says their story is just too elaborate to have them all make it up and remember all the details. He says that, they say that they don't want any part of the reward that is associated with this case. I think at that time it was like $150,000 reward if an arrest was made. But these two sisters were saying they really didn't wanna take any of that. So that wasn't a motivation for them, which makes it seem a little bit more legitimate cuz they're just coming forward.
AJ: Yeah. Coming forward with nothing to gain. There's no financial gain they want. It can only harm the family, so it makes sense that them coming forward, there's nothing to gain so it feels a little bit more accurate.
Katie: Yeah, exactly. So yeah, they're just coming forward because they wanna get the truth out there basically, not to get this money. So July 8th, 2016, Kyrene and Sarah are supposed to meet with the investigator to get his full report that indicated where Kenleys body was and to release the suspect's name, because at this time the family still didn't know. But at the last minute, the investigators were advised that they should take it to the RCMP first instead, and so that's what they do. The family, Sarah and Kyrene are still left hanging, not knowing all these details. Sarah actually takes it upon herself to call her RCMP contact Troy, just because she felt that the PI wasn't making the right decision and keeping all this information to himself. So I guess the whole thing was that there was gonna be a five day delay because the officer that was gonna be in charge was on vacation or couldn't meet with them for five days, and so she just thought they had to get this information out there before the suspect was tipped off, before anybody else got hurt because this information came out. So she contacted the police to get moving on this now, was basically her thought. So she reaches out to the RCMP and talks to the officer named Troy. Like I said, she tells him straight up that they had found Kenley and she doesn't actually have names or addresses. She tells him that she knows that he's in a swampy ravine somewhere on a property in Wolfville, and that Troy needs to contact the PI, Tom Martin for all the details.
He says that after he talks to Troy, if all this information is good, then they can go forward with this new tip that they have. So Sarah and Kyrene are thinking that this is it, and that things are gonna happen very quickly. But even after six weeks since that tip came in, the RCMP have not done anything further with this information that they have and they are saying that there really isn't any reasonable evidence, or enough evidence for them to go and excavate the land or look further. They can't do that kind of an extensive search. The police finally do talk to Aaron Smith, who denies knowing Kenley and denies knowing anything about his disappearance. She also refuses to take a polygraph test at that time. So it's not until December of 2016 when the names of the suspect is finally released to Sarah and like I said, she's told that the suspect's name is Jason Kenny. Now she goes by Aaron Smith. The Kenny property is this large property on a lot that used to be a farm. It's very overgrown. There's a ravine that runs through it, a very deep ravine. Finally on December 8th, 2016, that's when the RCMP decide that they can go and search the property. They get out there. It's just the RCMP officers at this time. They don't really have any cadaver dogs or anything, but they don't find anything on the property.
So interviews and information from the family that had come forward is finally released to Sarah and her family. This is what they're saying happened or the information that they have. While the information is kind of hearsay, it's like someone said this to this person and now they're telling this person and then they tell the PI. It's a very convoluted story so I'll try to make it as clear as I can here. So one of the sisters, Sandy, tells the PI that her sister, Selena told her in June of 2016 that she had a secret that she had been keeping. She said that their brother, Randy, told her that her other sister, Suzanne, had come to him all in a panic, and that whatever she said to him led Randy to believe that their niece Erin, had done some harm to another young man. When Erin was confronted by Randy, she denied everything, but she did allegedly say that something along the lines of they will never find him. Randy also remembers this conversation with Suzanne about Erin, and he says that Erin was interested in a girl at Acadia and that she suspected that Erin had done something to another boy at Acadia who also liked the same girl. And so he recalls that when he talked to Erin, Erin was very calm about it. He wasn't nervous. Cool as a cucumber, he said. He said he doesn't remember exactly what Erin said, but yeah, this is Randy's version of the story. It's a little bit different than what Selena had told Sandy. So Randy remembers that Erin smugly said something like, will never be found or it won't be a problem. Something along those lines with like a little smile. And it made him think that something bad had happened or that she had done something bad to this other person. So Randy says that he doesn't know where Erin would have hid or buried a body if he did do anything, but Randy tells them about the spot on the property that no one ever goes. He says it's a very dark and dank, nasty, deep hollow and said no one would ever follow you there. So he's thinking about this ravine, I think, on this farm property. And when they talk about Erin a little bit, Selena and Randy have a conversation, because she says to Randy, quote, do you think Jason had that sex change operation to spite his father? And Randy says, quote, no. He did it to be somebody else to not be who he was anymore. And Selena says, quote, why would he do that? And then Randy says, quote, you might too, if you did what he did. And then when she asks Randy what he did, he says quote, do you remember that boy that went missing at Acadia back in the nineties? Well, Jason did him in, and he said, quote, Jason killed him. And then Selena asked how Randy knew all this. Randy said, quote, Jason told me he did it. So, these conversations are what some of the other sisters are telling the PI what Randy told them because when they go back and talk to Randy about it, he doesn't have this level of detail that they're saying. He says that Erin never really confessed anything to him. So I don't know if they're just not remembering the details properly, if they're maybe making things up to make it sound a little bit more convincing. But that's just kind of where the stories are. A little bit confusing. So when they're still talking about this whole situation, Selena asks about the chicken pit that used to be on their property, and she says, do you think that he threw him in the chicken pit? And Randy says that's exactly what he did with him. And Selena describes the farm that used to be on the Kenny property, and it was one of those awful cruel farms where they would have like 30,000 chickens crammed onto one floor of the barn. And then another floor would have like another 25,000 chickens on the second floor. And so every day they would have to go around and gather up all these dead chickens that would just die cuz they were just living in these horrible conditions. And so that was just an everyday thing. And she says they threw them all into this thing that they called the chicken pit, which is a giant hole in the ground. They used to throw all their old rotten produce down there as well. And Celina says that she physically was out there one time with them while they were throwing stuff in the pit and just had this horrendous stench that came out of it. As you can imagine. And like if you ever wanted to get rid of a human body or get rid of anything that no one would ever find, that would be the place to throw it. So when they're talking about this years later, Randy said that he believes quote that Canadian psycho got away with one. So it seems like he's very convinced that Erin was involved in this. But later you'll see that he really is less convinced of his own information that he had.
So 10 months after the RCMP had received Tom Martin's report, they conducted a search of the property, and this time they brought in a cadaver dog to help them with the search. The dog didn't find anything still, but they didn't actually go over the whole property. They were only there for a little over an hour to search this big farm property. They didn't actually go to where the chicken pit was located. And so it seems like they definitely missed a lot of places. And I don't know, for whatever reason, it just seems like the attitude of that officer that was in charge of the dog really had this nonchalant attitude that he was, you know, it was a burden for him to even be there. That was the sense that I got from this guy.
So what do you guys think about this whole search that they'd done? They obviously thought this was credible enough to get out there and search, but then they didn't find anything. What are your thoughts on this whole theory so far?
I don't know. I think it wasn't obviously thorough enough. I think maybe they did it to say that they did or to look good or to show that they're caring. But I don't really think that they put as much effort into it as they could have. I think, for me, I just feel like there's probably some portions of that property or something that was unchecked or not checked thoroughly. I just can't really say for sure. But I would just assume that they did do a thorough enough check just from my, that's my opinion, but it didn't seem like they really cared as much as maybe it looks like they did just cuz oh, they're doing a search. But I think for me it was more of like, let's do this just to say we care kind of vibe, even though that's not really what they were going for. I don't know.
Stephanie: I do agree with you. I don't think they actually did enough searching the grounds. It's a big property, so it would take days and months to search it. Yeah, I don't think, they just didn't care enough to search the whole thing. So who knows that there could have been an area they never searched and that's the area that you could find what you're looking for. But yeah, I don't think they cared, cared enough to do any of that.
Katie: Yeah, and they didn't even search that ravine apparently. The police had never gone down to that ravine to search. They didn't bring a cadaver dog down into that ravine. So I don't know when you get a search warrant like that, could you only search certain spots and they just didn't have permission to go through the whole property. But I don't know why you wouldn't. So, It just seems like they had this big opportunity that they missed.
AJ: Yeah, and like Steph said it, it would've taken weeks or months to search a property that big. You know, I feel like they've searched smaller properties for longer. So the fact that they didn't take that time shows that they just weren't thorough. I don't think so just cuz the fact that they didn't find anything on the property to me doesn't mean there's nothing here. I think it's like, well no, you didn't find anything because you didn't look hard enough.
Katie: Yeah. And I mean this whole ravine, it's forest and it's overgrown. It's really hard to even get in there. And so if there was a body in there, it would definitely be well hidden this many years later. So they would definitely need the help of cadaver dogs and professional searchers to do a thorough job. The police just really weren't offering that to them. So it really is unfortunate that they could never really get this thorough search done. And I mean, as they go on with this whole theory that Erin Smith had something to do with it, Randy, like I said, his story, it's not like his story changes, but it's different than what his sisters were claiming had happened. They claim that he came to one of them saying all this stuff. When he talks about it, he just kind of says, you know, I never really got a straight answer from Erin. He never actually said anything to me about it. I wasn't even really sure what the whole conversation was about. I wasn't sure what I was even asking her. So it seems like this whole thing seems so promising at the beginning, but then once you get down into the details it's like, hmm, not really sure what happened. I wanna believe that their story is credible cause why come forward with all this? But it seems like they're remembering different bits and pieces of it.
AJ: Yeah, and I also feel like I get the vibe and I guess there was probably some things that were stated in the documentary too that like, this is a family with a lot of history, a lot of people and a lot of, you know, turmoil maybe. So, you know, you could just argue, well maybe they're just reporting this to get back at someone or something. You know? I don't think that's the case, but I also think they're just, maybe they went to the police or they went to the PI with maybe just information that was not accurate, but the way they're remembering it is just different than what actually happened. Not saying that Erin didn't say these things about having done this thing to Kenley or something, but I feel like maybe they went forward with information that they didn't know a hundred percent was true or not. Or remembered it wrong or misinterpreted what was said and then drew conclusions or something. I don't know. But I do think it is credible, but I just think they didn't have all of the information in line, and then when they go to recall it, it's like half missing and different than each other's, you know?
Yeah. I think the PI got this information and then they just got too excited that this was the big break that they had been waiting for this whole time. Because when you're talking to one of the sisters, Sandy, she says that Randy has one of the greatest memories ever. And Selena remembers exact conversations that people have, but yet their stories aren't matching up. So it's either she's exaggerating their ability to remember, people are remembering things differently, or people are just thinking things are true when they're not, or they don't wanna remember certain details. So yeah, it's just, it becomes very iffy once they get into this further.
Well, I got the sense that Randy was sort of walking it back once he said this to his sisters and then once confronted with it by the PI, once it's out there and then they come questioning, it's like he's trying to walk it back maybe. Trying to , because it's still his family member, right? So maybe he's trying to not sugar coat it, but just put a spin on it that makes it different than what he initially said to his sister. You know what I mean? So I think maybe he got a little bit scared off maybe by what could happen as a result of this.
Katie: Maybe. Yeah, maybe it became more serious than he was expecting it to and now he actually, you know, was bringing this to the PI and the RCMP. So yeah, maybe he is just hesitant about what the repercussions could actually be for his family.
AJ: And maybe he said it in a heat of the moment. He admitted this, right? Like , oh,Erin came to me with this and then now hes thinking it's for real this time. I have to recount this information and it has serious consequences potentially.
Katie: Yeah, that's true. But I mean, he even goes down into the ravine with the filmmaker and they look around cuz he says that he had dreams about that place and so he just wanted to go down there and look around. I mean, when you see this place, there's no way you'd ever find anything if you're looking for something specific. Just how overgrown and large it is. So yeah, it's just interesting where the story goes.
AJ: Yeah. So I guess, like you said, the filmmaker goes with Randy to check out this ravine and nothing really comes of it obviously. It's just Randy and the filmmaker, not that they're ever gonna actually find anything, but he even says Randy's you know, gotta look. Just, you gotta feel better having looked. But then they also approach Randy with the idea of doing hypnosis to think if maybe this will jog his memory because there's like half a story here that is, it's not really clear, you know, Erin is saying that she potentially did this thing and then it's a bad game of telephone, as people are remembering their version of it.
So anyway, in the documentary they show Randy going to hypnosis and goes through a few sessions I guess, and nothing really comes of it. He recounts the filmmaker then reads back Randy's statement to him that he said to see if that triggers a memory because there is a missing piece in there that Randy was hoping that maybe with hypnosis could be found. You know, there's just some information that's not really out there. I think the major thing that sticks out to me in this documentary is what happens in the last episode when Kenleys mother, Sarah goes with the filmmaker to Erin's home, in Nova Scotia and ambushes her, I guess. Sarah just goes up and knocks on her door and starts saying a hello, wanna talk to you.
Katie: Yeah. The camera's off, but it was rolling the whole time.
AJ: Oh my God. Yeah. A little shady, right? Erin agrees, but only if she's not on camera, and then it shows the entire conversation on video.
Katie: I know. Sketchy. Yeah. Get in trouble for that, but...
AJ: Yeah,. I feel like it's not ethical. But anyway, yeah, so they go and they're just talking to Erin, which to me, I was just glued to when I was watching this part because it's the so-called suspect they're talking to. Erin denies ever knowing anything about Kenley. She says that she never knew Kenley while at Acadia. She says the RCMP went and questioned Erin initially and provided , what they thought was a picture of Kenley. But Erin says no, they just showed me a sketch of Kenley and it was never actually a picture. So the documentary filmmaker actually shows Erin a picture of Kenley and Erin says that's the first time she's ever seen a picture of Kenley. He didn't even know what he looked like or anything like that. So Erin just continues to have this conversation.
Stephanie: I feel like that's not true though.
AJ: That she's never seen a picture of Kenley.
Stephanie: Yeah.
Katie: She claims to not know Kenley and had not even heard about his disappearance ever because she says when the RCMP first talked to her about it, she thought it was a scam because she was saying she had no idea about this case at all. And I mean, I, I don't think I went into this, but her connection with Kenley was basically, they both went to Acadia at the same time. But she says they never partied together. They didn't run in the same circles. She never met him.
AJ:
An interesting note that I do have is like during that part of the doc where they are in Erin's house and Erin makes a point to say, oh yeah, we didn't run in the same circles. He went to parties and if that was the type of, you know, doing drugs and all that stuff, and you know, me and my friends, we just played Dungeons and Dragons and I didn't even live on campus and I was staying with my girlfriend and what blah, blah, blah and all that stuff. And she says that, you know, her friends are engineers all over the world and they were like really smart and that's why, you know, she just didn't associate with that crowd, which I just find interesting and I'll bring it up a little bit later in another part about why I've found that interesting.
Stephanie: She kept talking about herself. Everytime time they would ask a question, she'd talk about herself.
AJ: What did you guys think of that interaction? I would say what the scene's like maybe 10 minutes in that episode. They pretty much show their conversation until the memory card dies I think in the episode, it just goes black. I think the memory card died. But I think that part of it is like 10 minutes where they're just talking with her. What did you guys think of that interaction? Did you believe what she was saying? Did you find her sketchy? What did you think?
Stephanie: Yeah, I found it a little bit sketchy. I found that she quick to answer the questions, but also she was bringing it back to herself. She kept talking about how she was really special, high IQ and she kept it back to herself. She was avoiding the questions, but I don't know. She seemed a little bit odd to me.
Katie: Yeah. And she was saying that she has a photographic memory and that she would finish the whole semester's homework in a couple weeks just because she absorbed everything as quick as she read it. But then they show her grades and she withdrew from a lot of classes and she just got D's and C's, which doesn't mean necessarily she's not smart, just cuz you're smart doesn't mean you necessarily test well or whatever. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know how to read her. And I guess when you first had that interaction, I guess I, I don't know. I sort of thought she was believable that she didn't know. She had nothing to do with it. She had a falling out with her mother many years ago, so maybe this was her family's way of getting back at her cuz she was estranged from them. She said she hadn't talked to Randy since she was 16. So there's this dynamic where the family doesn't get along. So maybe they thought that, for whatever reason, they were gonna get back at her by blaming all this on her. That's the vibe that I got until they talked to her other sibling a little bit later on.
AJ: Yeah. So I didn't really know what to make of it. I thought she was sketchy as well. I don't know, I didn't really know what to make. Her eyes were darting from one to another. I don't know. But also I mentioned that cuz I told you, my roommate is actually the one who found this documentary and told me about it. We were talking about it and she was like, but people who have photographic memories sometimes do that with their eyes, right? They're in tune with everything. So their eyes sometimes will dart, you know, back and forth cuz they're keeping a mental note of it. That's what she said. I don't know if that's true or medically accurate. But she's sketchy to me. And I don't know, there's a part of me that felt bad for her too. In, in some way. Well, A, because she's being filmed and doesn't. Which is unethical, B, I don't know, a part of me just felt bad for her. If it is true, all of her family doesn't get along with her and she's disassociated from her family and all of that stuff. Then all of a sudden, if this isn't true and all of a sudden people are coming to her, RCMPs questioning her and people are accusing her of all this stuff, then I feel bad for her. But also why would your family accuse you of that? You might not get along with your family, but why would you accuse them of murder if it wasn't true? But during that moment when they're in her house, I was, I don't know, just looking for any little thing that she would say to see if she might say something that implicated her . So I really can't go one way or the other. I mean, I tend to believe that she had something to do with it because all these members of her family are coming and saying that she herself has said that she did it and made statements of like, oh, it won't be a problem, or they'll never find him. Stuff like that. Just tend to believe it. And Kenleys mother is just casually having a conversation, asking questions like, oh, there's something wrong with your leg. Or, oh, you know, just trying to maybe get her to say something and see if it would lead to anything. But yeah, that whole part was, was sketchy. But they did say they have texts that comes up and says that Erin claims that she has an IQ of 173. And she also says that she has Klinefelter syndrome, I think thats how you pronounce it, and then the documentary says that the odds of both of those things being true are about one in 2 billion, billion with a b.
Stephanie: What did you say? What disease.
AJ: Klinefelter syndrome. I think it's how you pronounce it, but I looked it up and it's when someone is born with an extra X chromosome or something.
Stephanie: Oh, okay.
AJ: But the documentary claims that the likelihood of you having Klinefelter syndrome and also a 173 IQ, don't know how they would have tested this, but they say one in 2 billion of that actually being true. But then the documentary also says that that was refuted by contradictory evidence. So I don't really know what to believe. if maybe she does have a photographic memory. I think it's just trying to say she's trying to paint this picture of her being something that she's not. Saying she has this really high IQ and she doesn't, she's failing and then they show her transcripts from Acadia, she's failing all these classes withdrawing. So why is she saying she has really high IQ? Why is she saying she has Klinefelter? I feel like she must have that, if she's saying she does, why would you lie about that?
But I think it's meant again by this filmmaker to throw into question everything she says. Like if you're gonna lie about having an 173 IQ, what else would you lie about? I feel like that's the point that is trying to come across in that part. They talk to Erin's other sibling, Toby May Saunders, who actually didn't wanna have an interview, but then actually agrees to have an interview with the filmmaker and has an interview that changes a lot of ideas I thought I had about the case. Like you said, Katie, when up to this point, all this stuff about Erin is totally speculative and you didn't really think, you know, questioning it. But then when Toby has this interview with the filmmaker, it does change everything where Toby talks a little bit about Erin and about, you know, having the sex change operation. Toby says that, Erin charmed some guy in the States and then went to Thailand to have the sex change because she was denied in Canada for one. She didn't pass a psych evaluation that they make you take. So she went to Thailand to do that. Was treating herself with hormones, and then came back to Canada just before the tsunami in Thailand happened and all that stuff. So, Toby just says, you have to be really careful when you're talking with Erin because in Erins mind, Erin was, I guess the way Toby words it Erin is a spirit that came down and killed Jason. This is the words that Toby says that Erin uses, the spirit came down and killed Jason and replaced Jason with Erin. So when you ask a question of do you know Kenley? In Erin's mind, she's a completely different person than Jason. It's not like she once was Jason and is now Erin. It's like Erin is a completely different identity and being, so when you ask Erin, do you know Kenley? The answer would be no, because Erin didn't know Kenley. Jason knew Kenley. So, Toby says, when you're asking these questions, you have to be careful in the way that you word the questions because if you're just asking does she know Kenley well, she's gonna say no because Erin didn't know Kenley. But then Toby also says that she distinctly remembers being in a flashback to watching the news, the news report that happened, covering the case. And in that moment she says that, Erin said something that kind of shocked her and her mother, like that little asshole messed with the wrong guy's girlfriend and his body's in the bear caves, in Melanson Mountain, or something to that effect, which is obviously I just find it weird that somebody would just say that if you're trying to hide the fact that you did it, why would you come out and say that, to your own family members. And also during Erin's interview that they have or talk that they have with Erin when they're at Erin's home, Erin does mention that someone in her family is part of the RCMP, who was giving her advice, telling her not to do the polygraph when they asked and all this stuff. So apparently I think it was Erin's father was part of the RCMP. So when Erin's mother went to Erins fathers after Erin had said that, Erins dad was like, don't tell anyone, never mention it again. And so then for years, Erin's mother never mentioned it, they just forgot about it. So then when the RCMP all these years later are coming back with these questions about Kenley Matheson, we're here to question you, they're like, who? What? Who is Kenley Matheson? Like what is this about? And then they're like, oh yeah, is this the missing student that Erin told us or made that comment about? Which is super, super sketchy. And also, Toby May Saunders says, she remembers actually meeting Kenley because Kenley was in their home as a friend, because he was friends with Erin at that time and they were Acadia students. And she actually remembers Kenley having a conversation with her mother saying, you know, your mother was being friendly, trying to get to know Erin's friends. And she was saying, Kenley wasn't really being too, or this person wasn't being too descriptive, wasn't really saying much, was just kind of giving short answers. But that she believes that that person in her home that night was Kenley. And this would've been obviously before he went missing in September of 1992. Remember, Kenley had only been there for a couple of weeks at Acadia before he went missing. So Toby is saying that she is a hundred percent sure that Kenley was in her living room as a friend of Erin's back in September of 1992. Which if that's true, puts even more suspicion that maybe Erin did have something to do with it. If they are friends or they at least knew each other, then that could be, you know, they had a history. So when Erin's saying that she doesn't know Kenley, never heard of Kenleys name, doesn't know what he looks like, that's not actually true. But then, like I said, in Erin's mind, it is true because Erin didn't know Kenley. Right. So it's a matter of semantics, I guess, for Erin.
Katie: Yeah. So it's like Erin completely disassociates her past as Jason and because she is now Erin, it's like, yeah, anything that Jason did, she doesn't know anything about cause that's not her anymore. So I feel like that is a bit scary to think that she can disassociate like that. But it kind of makes sense that if she's able to do that, then she can have all these lies with a straight face saying , yeah, like I didn't know him, I don't know him and her self believed that it's true. And I mean, she says that they were so different. She was so different from Kenley, there's no way they would've been friends. But even early on in the documentary it says that Kenley fit in with everybody. He wasn't a jock, but he hung out with the sports people. He hung out with the nerdier people. So it's not too far off to believe that they could have struck up a friendship just because Kenley was so personable and got along with everybody. So yeah, it's super, super sketchy.
AJ: Yeah. And also another thing I was gonna mention was in this interview, that Toby's giving, she says that Erin went to all the parties because when the news report came up in 1992 of this missing Acadia student, that's why Erin's mother asked Erin like, oh, do you know this student? You went to all the parties, you were sociable. So it's just interesting that now Erins sister saying that Erin did go to all the parties and did do all of that sort of stuff, when Erin made a very big point in their conversation with the filmmaker to be like, no, that was a different crowd. We didn't really do that. So it's just interesting, like, which story do you believe? Because if he did go, because if Erin did go to all the parties and was sociable, that's other interactions. Did something happen at the tower party? Like if Aaron was at that tower party that Kenley was really drunk at, did something happen? Kenley was hitting on people's girlfriends. Remember that was a story that came out. Was maybe Erin's girlfriend there, they got into an altercation, you know, something happened because that would've only been a couple of days before Kenley was last seen. So that's also a possibility too, if Erin did go to all these parties and was a big partier like her sister seems to claim when Erin herself says that she wasn't in that scene. So it's just interesting details that do come up. But also something else too is that, Toby mentions in this interview something about how Aaron said they'll never find Kenley and also we did something or we did things to throw the police off. And then in that moment the documentary flashes to, you know, the Greenpeace ad and it flashes to the backpacker, the jacket, little tidbits from the case. So it makes you wonder like were certain things planted there to throw the police off? Was that Greenpeace ad? I guess if you're going with the theory that Erin was involved, did Erin kill Kenley and then go to the room and rip out a Greenpeace ad to make people think that he just went up and left. You know, maybe Erin knew a little bit about Kenley, like maybe Kenley had disclosed like, yeah, oh, I, I wanna work for Greenpeace, or Oh, I like to travel, or, so then she got the idea of like, you know, killed her and then was like, oh, well if I just make it look like maybe he just got up and left, then no one's gonna think anything of it. Or people might think that that's what happened. So it kinda makes you wonder in that moment of like, well, was the Greenpeace ad just a red herring? Did the person who did it just do that to throw police off? Or is that something legitimate? That was just interesting too. And I don't know, like one way or the other, obviously. Then it does flash on the screen during the doc near the end of the documentary that Erin did eventually agree to a polygraph after two and a half years of refusing one. She does agree to a polygraph. She's asked three questions by a different RCMP officer who's doesn't know anything about the case. So it's like unbiased. Shes only asked three questions and she does pass the polygraph. So she did pass, but I mean, we know they're not admissible in court, so, and it was only three questions so it wasn't an in-depth Q and A, it was just basic questions I would assume. So that's just a note as well. Obviously she's denied everything and she's passed the polygraph, so there's no physical forensic evidence to suggest. And also with this family too, there was this debate of whether there was a chicken pit or not. Some family members remember the chicken pit being there. Others say there was no chicken pit. They show satellite footage of this alleged chicken pit, which is weird to me that they don't know if there even was a chicken pit. So it's a lot of unknowns at this time. So what are you guys' theory. Do you think there was a chicken pit, A, and B, do you think it was Erin who did something and maybe threw police off with the Greenpeace ad? What do you guys think?
Stephanie: I think there was a chicken pit. Because they did have chickens. That we know they had chickens. So...
AJ: Do we know that though?
Stephanie: Didn't they say they had chickens?
Katie: Yeah. I think them having a large chicken farm was a fact.
AJ: Oh, okay.
Stephanie: So yeah. So knowing that they had a chicken farm, then that would make sense they had a chicken pit and then going to Erin, I'm actually leaning towards that maybe she did, because there's so many different people in her family saying that she did it. And why would you accuse somebody of such a heinous thing if they actually didn't do it? I feel like she did do it, and I feel like there needs to be more investigated and dig deeper into her past and what she was like as Jason. They know some things, but I think they need to look more into it and get to the bottom of it. Cuz something to me doesn't seem right about that.
AJ: Yeah, again, why would her whole family be pointing the finger? Not her whole family, but members of her family are pointing the finger at her. Like I said, I have family members, like distant family members that I don't like or don't care, but I wouldn't accuse them of murder. Like just because you don't like someone have a vendetta doesn't mean you would accuse someone of murder. To me, that's just weird that multiple people are doing that. Kind of like that saying of, you know, where theres smoke there's fire. For there to be that many people pointing the finger, I feel like something had to have happened. So the theory is maybe, you know, Erins sister is saying that Erin said to her, he messed with the wrong guy's girlfriend and they'll never find the body, blah, blah, blah. So the theory is did Kenley hit on Erin's girlfriend and you know, heat of the moment something happened and then Erin went and covered it up and hid the body? Or did Erin get somebody to do it for her? Was there a group of people that maybe took Kenley, did something to him, you know what I mean? It could have been not just Erin by herself, it could have been multiple people or her group of friends or people she knew or something. So it's just crazy to me. And then in the documentary, Sarah, Kenleys mother does go to Melanson Mountain, where, you know, Kenleys body's alleged to be, and she searches on her own, of course, she's not really gonna find anything. She doesn't have the police capacity to find really anything, so that part was also sad when Kenleys mother was just searching for the remains there. Then towards the end of the documentary, one of the last things was as production on the documentaries are wrapping up and they're in post-production, they actually get an anonymous email from someone to the filmmaker just saying that, you know, she wanted to come to him anonymously because she's worried about the family, being the Kenny family, like Erin's family and all those people who are accusing her. Saying that someone came to her door and said that, their child was a suspect in a long known cold case, and that, you know, just reiterating the story thinking that it could have been Erin involved, that Erin mentioned that she had killed a fellow student and that, you know, people were asking questions and she was just asking this person, so Erin's mother maybe was asking this person who sent the email, you know, came to her door and said like, do you think that the police would be able to do anything if there's no body? Maybe just kind of questioning if, you know, if things kind of picked up in the investigation, if there could be charges laid, like maybe kind of just putting it out there. Is that a possibility? I don't know why she would ask this person that, but in their conversation that came up. So this person just wanted to come forward with this information. They went to the Crime Stoppers tip line, never got a follow up, never got an interview or anything with them. Seems like they didn't care. So she just had her next course of action was to just go to the filmmaker with this anonymous email. But she wanted to be anonymous because she's scared of the family and they're becoming more erratic and things like that. So just another piece of information that makes you wonder like, who is this person sending the email, first of all and now that's another case of someone in this family mentioning that, you know, Erin had mentioned doing something to another student. Now there's another person, but also we don't know who this person is. It was a Jane Doe. They're anonymous. I don't know why somebody would make that up, to further implicate this family. Maybe somebody just wanted to send this email to further implicate the family, even if they have no knowledge. But I tend to believe what was written in the email, just cuz it seems plausible. And you know, but we don't know who the person is, so we have no idea to know whether they're telling the truth or not. So what did you guys think of that email and how it ended because the documentary ends with that.
Stephanie: I think it's strange, but then again it goes back to Erin. She's obviously accusing Erin again. So like you said, there's that fourth person, whoever's accusing the same person of this crime. So I think they need to look into that further and see if they can find who did it and who sent it and what that means.
Katie: Yeah, it just makes it more believable that Erin could have had something to do with it cuz there's this other person coming forward just wanting to make sure the information is out there. At first I just wanted to believe that Kenley left on his own and that something may have happened to him, but this whole theory at the end, it just seems like too much for it not to be true as well. So I don't know. I'm still caught between the two theories that he took off, something happened to him and that Erin did something to him or somebody did something to him. So I mean, yeah, I guess just to be clear, Erin was never a suspect or accused of anything or charged. So that's just a theory that's out there. And also when you were saying that Sarah, Kenleys mother was looking in the ravine, trying to look into the caves, just trying to find the remains. She even said she doesn't care if the perpetrator ever gets punished or goes to jail. At this point she just wants to bring Kenley home, which is so sad. She's just like, I just want him home. It doesn't matter what happened or who did it, just tell me where he is. So that as sad.
AJ: Yeah, that was so sad. And it's also so sad, the state of affairs that she has to go by herself to go and search for the remains cuz no one else cares. The fact that she has to go by herself and search for them is really sad. The people with the capability to actually do the search dont give a shit.
Katie: I know.
AJ: That's sad.
Katie: Yeah. Imagine just getting a couple cadaver dogs out there for the day, how much more ground they could cover. And sad, she's out there looking under rocks and thinking about the caves and, I don't know. It's, it's just super sad.
AJ: Yeah. Also throughout the documentary, people would say that, you know, they went to psychics, the family went to psychics and had readings who said that the body was near water. And also, that woman who said that Kenley came to her door for Greenpeace, said that she had a premonition that he was near water or something. And the ravines and the caves is in an area where it'd be near water. So there's also another weird thing if it were to be true, a connection there. I mean, who knows if the psychics were legit or not? Obviously we'll never know that. It's super sad and super sketchy. So I guess , coming out of the documentary after you watch it, you believe the theory with Erin because there's so much there that you can't ignore it. More so than the other theories. But to me, if something did happen and Erin killed Kenley the night that he went missing or shortly after that, why would he be seen by all these people in Halifax after that, in the year after that? That doesn't really explain that. Or going to that woman's door, working for Greenpeace, that doesn't make sense either. And that was in 97, which would've been five years after he went missing.
Katie: I know. That's why I am caught between those two theories where he was out there, but then on the other hand, he was killed in September of 92. Yeah, I can't make up my mind. So it's weird.
AJ: Yeah. If you believe the Erin theory, all of that doesn't explain all those sightings and if you believe the sightings that he just ran away, then there's so many questions of why are all these fingers getting pointed at Erin and why is, you know, Erin allegedly admitting to it all these years ago? And again, that's hearsay and we'll never know, or it's just an allegation. So it's just super frustrating and so many questions. We don't have any answers of course, it's still unsolved, but there were sort of some revelations that came out after the documentary. So the filmmaker is keeping track of updates in the case on the official Twitter page and is posting documents and RCMP emails and all of this stuff because he's still investigating this case or looking into it and following it. One of the major developments that came out after the documentary came out was that, remember that lead RCMP officer, Troy Allen, who was Sarah's contact throughout it, and he was the one that she went to with that information from the PI that Erin's family was saying that Erin was a person of interest, so it actually came out that Troy Allen is related to Erin and that family and was put on the case in 2016 once Erin became a suspect from all this information, was put onto the case. And then in 2019, Erin was deemed no longer a suspect because by that point she had passed that three question polygraph and was dropped as an official suspect. Then after that, Troy Allen was taken off the case. So that seems super sketchy that for the three years that Erin was a suspect, they put him on the case and that's, you know, when Sarah goes to him with that information and then nothing happens for six weeks, seems like he's actively trying to sabotage the investigation. Doesn't really do a thorough search of the grounds that Sarah says that Kenleys body could be on the Kenny family farm, all of that stuff. So, I mean, given all that information, it makes sense why the RCMP are doing, you know, jack shit about any of it.
Katie: Yeah. It's crazy that Troy Allen was related to Erins family and he was put on the case. That doesn't seem right. I don't think he should be allowed to do that. That is nuts.
AJ: I know it doesn't seem like it should be allowed to happen, but you know, the RCMP says, you know, it's not, I guess there's a statement or they responded to an email from the filmmaker, said like, it's not illegal that, you know, he's on this case. I guess technically, I don't know. It's definitely a conflict of interest at the very least.
Stephanie: That is strange that he was put on the case cuz I feel like that's not right.
Katie: Yeah, cuz you have a personal interest in making sure that they're not looked at any further and that they get off. So yeah, it seems strange.
AJ: Yeah. It's just crazy. Someone that you're related to is a prime suspect and all of a sudden all these major tips aren't being followed up on and all of this information is to be investigated, oh that's a strange coincidence. So it's like pretty crazy that that was even allowed to happen, but it was for three years. So little did Sarah know, it's sad looking back when you watch the documentary now, it's like when Sarah makes that phone call to Troy Allen telling him we found Kenley, we have this information from a PI, she could have unwittingly been tipping off this head RCMP investigator who can then go back to this family or to Erin and, you know, give that information to thwart the progress. So it's sad when you watch that part of the documentary knowing like, oh my God, don't make that call Sarah. Don't tell Troy. And I guess there's no way because if he's the head person on this case, everything has to go through him, right? No matter when the tips come in, no matter who gives them. So it's just sad.
Katie: I guess. But there was supposed to be somebody else that was supposed to lead up this case, but Sarah didn't wanna wait for that other person to come back. Remember? So that could've been a part in it. If they would've just waited, it would've been someone different that took the case.
AJ: Yeah, that's true. It's just sad. So if you wanna follow that Twitter account, it's @ missing Kenley. So just the name of the documentary and that's on Twitter and updates very regularly, you know, with statements from the RCMP or any emails or you know, access to information requests that he gets cuz he's still very on this case, but I also want to just read out this tweet that came. Oh yeah, he also has a case that says he has, you know, evidence to suggest that it's obstruction of justice, in this case by the R C M P because of, you know, the fact that the head investigator could be actively obstructing justice if it's a conflict of interest, right. One of the things was that, looking into Erins history and apparently there was a history of assault and violent offenses on Erins record. When he dug a little bit deeper, so saying that like, this is someone who could have had, you know, a violent history and that's on the official Twitter from this filmmaker. It's all alleged at this point, or I guess if it's on a court document or police document that it's true, but it's the paperwork from, you know, at that time, William Jason Kenny, and it's from the 1997. Turns out was not the first time during those years that Kenny was charged with assault records show two prior assaults involving the same individual as well as a fourth charge a few years later involving another person. Thats just a little bit of history looking into Erins, criminal history according to this Twitter account by this filmmaker. But it's police records allegedly. So that's also just an interesting note. Not knowing if it really pertains to anything in this case, but just an interesting side note. That's just crazy. We'll keep updating you as updates come, and if you follow that Twitter account, you'll get all of those updates and I'm sure more will come and hopefully maybe they can resolve this case. Maybe someone will come forward with more information, maybe someone will confess, who knows. As you know, as years go on, it gets longer and longer away from it. People die, witnesses die. People forget details as we've seen in this case with the recounting of several stories. So super sad and just super mysterious and overall just perplexing. I can't really, just confusing to me. What are you guys' final thoughts?
Katie: It is confusing. It's so mysterious and I still can't put my finger on what I think is the strongest theory. I still am going back and forth, so I don't even have a conclusion for myself.
Stephanie: I'm the same way. I don't know what to believe. I don't know where to begin. I don't even know. I can't even wrap my head around what's happening. It's so many people involved. So many different things happening. So many people saying this and that. It's, it's so confusing. I can't, yeah. I can't figure out what's gonna happen next.
Katie: Honestly, I feel like if they do find his body in a ravine or not on someone's actual property, they're still not gonna have any evidence of what happened. At least they would have his remains for his mom to finally have some peace, but they still aren't gonna know the whole story, even if they do find his remains in a cave or something. So that's a sad part of it as well.
AJ: Yeah, yeah, that's true. And back in 2017, the RCMP did put out an age progression sketch of what Kenley would've looked like in 2017. And that was even after this information in 2016 that came out that led to a possible location of his body. So also the filmmaker makes the argument they're putting out into the media, into the public, that there's a chance that he's still out there, but yet they haven't an active lead that they're not following up on. But the fact that he could have been murdered and they're doing nothing about it, which is frustrating. And also the filmmaker blames the media because the media refused to pick up stories. They were gonna initially do a story about these developments, but that was canceled. And the media hasn't really picked up the story much either. So he's calling for everyone to bring attention to this case because there's a lot of injustice happening, and also a family that's waiting for answers at the end of it all. So just really, really sad. According to the Missing Kenley official website, it says, if you have any information on Kenley Matheson's disappearance or the investigation, please contact Ron Lamothe, the Director of Missing Kenley, that's at Ron @ missing kenley.com. We're gonna put links to the documentary. You can watch it on Amazon Prime in Canada and in the US. So if you're in Canada or US, definitely take a look at that documentary because it's very interesting and I will put links to all of our sources and to the tip line where you can send any tips you have.
We're at the end of season four right now, we don't really have a timeline for when we're gonna be back with season five. We have some, you know, things coming up, like we have some life stuff and some travel and all of this stuff planned, so we don't really know when, we're going to actually get season five to you, but we're hoping it'll be, you know, relatively quickly. We're gonna take a little bit of a break and formulate a plan for season five and we'll be back as soon as we can. So just follow us on all the social medias and we'll update you with new season news as it comes. It's been a great season, so thank you so much for listening and, we really appreciate you supporting the show and always letting us know what you think of the episodes and the podcast as a whole.
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