S02E12: THE DISAPPEARANCE OF SNEHA ANNE PHILLIP

On September 11, 2001, the entire world changed.  The trauma and destruction that occurred in New York City sent shockwaves throughout the world and left thousands of mourning families in its wake. For one of those families, there were more questions than answers and in this episode, we tell you their story.

Sneha Anne Phillip was last seen the day before 9/11 and the circumstances surrounding her last known whereabouts are shrouded in mystery. As the investigation into her disappearance uncovers,  Sneha may have been living a secretive double life that no one knew anything about and may have been struggling with many issues at the time she went missing- which is contrary to the perfect life she and her husband seemed to be living. As clues get uncovered and more mysterious information is revealed, the debate remains:  Did Sneha die in the 9/11 attacks like thousands of others? Was she met with foul play the night before the attacks? Or, did she use the 9/11 attacks as a cover in order to escape and live a new life elsewhere?

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EPISODE RESOURCES:

Court Records:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160126212035/http://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2008/2008_00630.htm

New York Magazine Article:
https://nymag.com/news/features/17336/

The Independent:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/sneha-philip-mystery-disappeared-9-11-b1917381.html

"Trace Evidence":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T4DF2BK3Hw&t=2690s

Dr. Todd Grande's coverage of the case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6FzaJEH9OE&t=170s

Update on Sneha's Family:
https://www.rediff.com/news/special/snehas-room-has-been-kept-the-same-way-for-the-past-15-years/20160911.htm

Transcript

Coming up on this episode of Crime Family:

The disappearance of Sneha Anne  Philip, she's a woman who went missing in the shadows of one of the world's darkest days, September 11th, 2001. Her last known whereabouts are actually the day before the attacks on September 10th. And she has no known connection to the world trade center.

And he was able to enter this apartment. And what he found was like an eerie scene that almost sounds like it could be something from like a post apocalyptic movie. 

It seems like this whole situation is like she could have met with foul play some random person she met at the bar and then this whole 9/11 thing, it was like the perfect cover up for whoever did something to like, no one's going to be paying attention to me right now.

So there was a post on the website in 2012, it was a hand drawn photo of the burning twin towers with the words, everybody who knew me before 9/11 believes I'm dead.

 Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of crime family. If you are new with us, I am your co-host AJ and I'm here with my two sisters, Stephanie and Katie. And this week, I'm going to be telling you guys the story about the disappearance of  Sneha Anne Philip. And she's a woman who went missing in the shadows of one of the world's darkest days, September 11th, 2001, Sneha's case is unique because although she's officially considered one of the 2,977 victims of the terrorist attacks of that day, her last known whereabouts are actually the day before the attacks on September 10th.

And she has no known connection to the world trade center. So she didn't work there. There was, she had no like confirmed reason that she would be there. So that's why her case is a little bit more like sinister and why it kind of stands out versus her just being  a hundred percent, like one of the victims of the attacks, even though she's officially considered one of the victims.

Um, so was there something more sinister at play surrounding her death and disappearance? You guys can be the judge of that after hearing her story, I'm just going to get right into it. So Sneha Anne Philip was born in India on October 7th, 1969. And she immigrated to the United States with her family when she was a child.

And they started out in Albany, New York, and then they moved into another part of New York state. Sneha was the middle child, she had an older brother named Ashwin and a younger brother named John.  Sneha went  on to attend med school at the Chicago school of medicine in 1995. It was here that she met and fell in love with her future husband, Ron Lieberman.

And he was actually a year below her in the program. And because they wanted to graduate at the same time,  Sneha took a year off to travel. And then she returned to school the following year, and they graduated together in 1999. Then after their graduation, they were both offered medical residency programs in New York city at separate hospitals.

Sneha was doing her residency at Cabrini medical center in downtown Manhattan. And Ron did his at Jacobi medical center in the Bronx. And in May, 2000, the couple got married in a traditional Indian ceremony. It actually infused a little bit of Judaism, um, traditions as well, and with the Indian traditions, because Ron was Jewish.

And so they kind of had a ceremony that kind of reflected both of their cultures. So the young couple seemed to have it all by September, 2001, they were pursuing successful medical careers. They just got married and they moved into a nice apartment in battery park city, which is an up-scale residential neighborhood in downtown Manhattan, which is only a few blocks from the iconic twin towers of the world trade centre.

I'm going to start off, uh, talking about this case, um, about what happened on September 10th, 2001. And this was actually the day that Sneha was last seen alive. And she was actually off work that day. And her husband, Ron went to work around 11:00 AM and Sneha from what we can tell had a pretty low key day in the apartment, she repotted some orchids.

She cleaned the apartment in preparation for her cousin who was going to be coming over for dinner. I think it was on that Wednesday. So just a couple of days away. And she also had a two hour instant message conversation with her mother, which lasted from around 2:00 PM to 4:00 PM. And the conversation was kind of just like basic stuff, like Sneha was talking about how her weekend was and like what her plans for the upcoming week were and stuff like that.

So it was just kind of casual conversation. Um, but one thing of note during this conversation was  Sneha mentioned to her mother about wanting to go to the windows on the world restaurant, which was located on the 107th floor of the north tower of the world trade center. A friend of hers was getting married there in the spring, and Sneha expressed interest of wanting to like go there and advance to just check out the venue ahead of time and just kind of see what it was all about.

But there was no indication of when exactly she planned to make that trip to windows on the world. And like, there was no indication that she was planning to go there, like that day or the next day or any specific day. It was just kind of like in the near future, she would be going. Around 4:00 PM.  Sneha signed off and told her mother that she had to go run some errands.

And at around 5:18 PM surveillance cameras show, Sneha leaving her apartment building. And her known stops after leaving the apartment are at a dry cleaners to drop off some laundry. And then at century 21, which is a discount clothing store nearby her apartment building and a surveillance camera captures her inside the clothing store, just browsing the racks.

Like nothing, nothing seems suspicious or out of place or anything just pretty normal. And according to bank statements, she used her husband's American express credit card shortly after 6:00 PM at the store to purchase pantyhose, lingerie, a dress and bed linens. And then next, she goes to another store that was like just adjacent to that one.

And it was a shoe store and she went and purchased three pairs of shoes. The last confirmed image of her on surveillance video shows her leaving the store at around 7:18 PM with some large shopping bags. Now, an employee at the store recalls seeing Sneha that night, but says that she wasn't alone. She says that Sneha who was with another woman who Sneha kind of referred to as a friend of hers, the employee described this other woman as quote small in her early thirties, dark skinned, possibly Indian and quote, according to New York Magazine.

However, this woman does not appear on the surveillance footage of Sneha in that store. And nobody has ever come forward claiming to be this woman. So the logical conclusion to me at least, is that the employee is mistaken. Like I can't see why the cashier would lie about seeing her with this other woman.

Um, so it's probably just an honest mistake, like from my understanding  Sneha frequented in that store often, like it was really close to our apartment building, so it's very easy to just like mix up the days that she saw her. She thought it was on the 10th, but it was probably just another day. And like the fact that this other woman isn't on the surveillance footage at all is pretty good evidence to suggest that Sneha was in fact alone at the store. Um, but the employee does say that she remembers seeing her there that night with this other woman. So all we have is this employees word that she was with someone else that night, but nothing else to suggest that she was.

So we really don't know, but the surveillance video shows that she's alone. So she leaves the store shortly after 7:00 PM. And like I said, that was the last confirmed sighting of her on any surveillance footage. Her husband, Ron, returned home from work later that evening, it was around I think, 11:00 PM or midnight or so.

And he comes home to an empty apartment. Sneha's not there, but he wasn't super concerned at the time because it wasn't unusual for her to go out and she would like crash at a cousin or a friend's place for the night before returning home in the morning. Um, she did like the bar scene quite a bit, so she would go out for some drinks and then she would just end up crashing at whoever, whoever she was out with that night, she would just go to their place for the night.

And then he mentioned that it was usually between like 7:00 AM and 9:00 AM the next morning, which is when, like she would always come back to the apartment. It was always around that same like timeframe between in that two hour window at some point. So that when he got home at midnight or near midnight, like he wasn't concerned that she wasn't there, but it wasn't until the next morning when she still hadn't returned, and he hadn't heard from her that he saw. Kind of frustrated with her, um, like kinda just frustrated that obviously like, oh, she must've forgotten to call me, but he still said that he wasn't necessarily worried because he actually left the apartment early that morning. It was just like around six 30 in the morning.

So it was like before that window of time, when she would usually come home, so he wasn't like alarmed, but he was just kind of annoyed that she had forgotten to call him and whatever. So he goes off to work, um, at around six 30 or so for a meeting. That is, um, that's September 10th. So that was kind of the last day that she was actually confirmed to be seen.

And so now this brings us to. September 11th. And during an investigation that kind of took place after all of this kind of stuff came to light. Um, there were some phone records that showed that somebody did call Ron's cell phone from the apartment at around 4:00 AM on the early morning on September 11th.

Ron says that he doesn't remember this call at all, but he says that he was probably like half asleep and he used the home phone to call his cell phone so that he could check his voicemail. Um, he was in the apartment at the time and Sneha was not, um, as far as we know, so that is the likely explanation, but that's just like a, I don't really know how that plays into it, but he said, yeah, I probably was just checking my voicemails maybe to see if she had called.

So I don't know why he didn't use his own cell phone to call, check his voicemail on his own phone, but it was 2001. So maybe. I don't know, maybe he didn't have that kind of capability yet or something, but, you know, as far as we can tell that is legit, that it was actually just Ron calling his cell phone.

So like I said, Ron left for work early in the morning on September 11th for an 8:00 AM meeting at Jacobi medical center. And it was shortly after this meeting at 8:46 AM is when the first plane hit the north tower of the world trade center. So this is obviously the start of all of the chaos in the city that day.

And Ron attempts to call the apartment to reach Sneha, but there was no answer and she didn't have a cell phone. So reaching her at the apartment was the only way that he could get in contact with her. So Ron frantically tries to return home. And due to the fact that his wife was still unaccounted for their apartment was located only a few  blocks from the world trade center.

So that would place, uh  if she was anywhere near the apartment, that would place her in the heart of all of the chaos. So obviously he was quite concerned for that. Um, Ron was able to catch a ride in an ambulance that was heading for Manhattan cause he was in the Bronx at the time. Cause that's where the hospital was. And because of all of the chaos in the entire city that day, this trip into Manhattan took over six hours for him to just get into Manhattan. So he left at around 3:00 PM and he didn't arrive into the city until around 9:00 PM that night he does get to the apartment building at around 9:00 PM that night.

And the power was out obviously because they're only a few blocks from the towers. So that whole part of the city is just total destruction. He was able to, he was still dressed in his scrubs from the hospital. So he was able to like use his medical badge or credentials to get past like a police barricade that had been put up.

So he was able to get to the apartment, but because the power was out, he couldn't get into the building because it was like an automatic door that would open or like ran on power. Right. Like to get in. So he couldn't get into the building itself. So just walk to a friend's house that lived nearby and just crashed at their place.

So now we're like late in the night of September 11th and still hasn't heard from his wife at all. The 10th, um, was the last time that he seen her. So she's been unaccounted for, for over 24 hours. Um, at this point, the next morning he was able to get into the apartment building finally, and he was able to enter his apartment.

And what he found was like an eerie scene. That almost sounds like it could be something from like a post apocalyptic movie, uh, because a window was left slightly open, Ash and dust from the collapse of the twin towers covered their entire apartment. Um, so like every surface in the apartment was just covered with this like layer of dust and Ash.

And there were no footprints from anyone except for the couple's cats. So thistold Ron that Sneha had not been in the apartment at all since the towers fell. So obviously he's still, or is this obviously he's extremely worried. Her whereabouts are completely unaccounted for after leaving. What we know is that after leaving the shoe store shortly after 7:00 PM, Obviously he's must be extremely worried just with like the absolute chaos that is New York city during this time, that in itself is obviously stressful, but the fact that he also doesn't have any idea where she is, would also be quite stressful as well.

The only possible clue in this case that we have as to her whereabouts on the actual day of the attacks was some CCTV footage from the couple's apartment, building lobby, someone who matches Sneha's description can be seen entering the building's lobby at around 8:40 AM and standing in front of the elevators for a minute or two before walking away.

Now, actually some reports say it was eight 40. Some say it was 8:43 AM. So somewhere in that window, we'll say so. Yeah, this person just enters into the building, enters into the lobby. Stands in front of the elevators for a couple of minutes and then walk. If that is Sneha,, it places her in the apartment building only minutes before the first plane hit the north tower, which was at 8:46 AM.

However, the angle of the sun at that precise time caused a major glare on the camera footage, which makes the image quality too poor to say definitively for sure if it was Sneha or not. So investigators say that it does look to be somebody who matches her rough description. Um, somebody who's wearing something similar to the clothes that she was last seen then, um, like it is possible that it's her, but it has not been confirmed.

And some of the reports say that like, because of like the position of the sun, like all they could see was like a silhouette of a person. So I don't really know how you can tell from a silhouette, like what they're wearing or they also say that like the person's like mannerisms are similar to , but I don't know how you can tell that from like a silhouette.

Basically, it was just really poor quality. 

So you could see, like 

That's like, like in stores and there's a robber, that's like the worst quality you could ever imagine. You can't make out it's even a personand the cops are like, yeah, this is the guy. And then they like put this image out and you're supposed to be able to figure out who it is.

That's this, that's what I picture. 

Yeah. Yeah. So like, basically it was similar to that. It was like just the outline of someone, but the reports, there are reports that do say, like, it looked like somebody who matches her description, the clothes looks similar to what she was last seen wearing. And it's also clear that this person, this silhouette, they're not carrying any shopping bags.

So one thing in this case, that like seems kind of weird to me. So the apart... the shopping bag. So like when she left the shoe store at 7:18 PM, she was carrying two large shopping bags. These shopping bags were not found in her apartment at all. And this person at 8:40 AM on this security footage, isn't carrying them at all.

So the question. I feel in this case, like where are the shopping bags? Cause remember she bought, um, lingerie, pantyhose bed linens and three pairs of shoes. Like these were like expensive purchases. So she had the shopping bag. So she must've went somewhere to drop the bags off. So I feel like wherever she was, that person would know like she was, they were with her that night.

The bags were like at that place. 

I mean, it's not impossible to think that maybe she was having an affair with somebody and she dropped and she, like, that seems like something you would buy for somebody that you were having an affair with and drop them off at their house.

 Yeah. Like pretty obvious conclusion to, to come to. But I think like why would this person, nobody ever came forward to say like, oh yes, I was with her this night or anything. So to me it just seems 

like.

But how, like they didn't live in the world. I mean, 

Or they don't wanna  come forward because they don't want to know if they're married and they don't want to come out as having an affair.

 Yeah. But maybe the person that she's having an affair with worked in the world trade centers and maybe, you know, happened to die. So he never could confess and nobody else knew about it. And that was just like a secret that is actually a complete secret. 

Yeah. That's true. That's that is true. So that is possible. And obviously, like, I feel like the shopping bags, wherever the shopping bags are, is where, where she was that night. Obviously she didn't like the store was right next to her house. So it's like she didn't buy these items and then go back to the apartment and drop them off and then go out somewhere. Um, so she took them wherever she went. So wherever they are, it's like a clue into like where she was that night or if like she was met with foul play, potentially this person, whoever she was with might have some information about it.

So one theory that's out there. Is that she was in the area when the attacks happened and she rushed to the scene to provide aid. Um, like she did have a medical background and would likely want to use like her medical knowledge to help among the chaos. So if this theory is true, then it is possible that she was in the area directly surrounding the towers or possibly inside of them when they fell. Her husband said that between 7:00 AM and 9:00 AM, it was like that window of time when she would always be like returning. So she was at someone's house and then she was coming back at around that time, that would fall within that timeframe. And the first plane hit at 8 46 and they only lived a few blocks from the world trade center. So she would have literally been like right there, 

so, oh, so she would like leave her own apartment around seven? Between seven and nine and be coming back, or where was she coming from? 

Yeah, but like her husband said her husband said like, when she would go, like, as he said, she would go to like bars or with friends, like she would go out with friends or, and then she would stay at that friend's place. So like, that's why he wasn't worried when he came home at midnight, she wasn't home because she would always, she would often go out and then she says, then he says like, when she would stay over at these people's places between seven and 9:00 AM is when she would always return home. Like she would come home at around that time. 

Okay. All right. 

Yeah. So the first plane hit the world trade center at 8:46 AM. So like it's very possible. She could've been walking to the apartment at around like 8:46 AM and she could have like, seen all of the stuff that was happening and they could have rushed to like help in the chaos and stuff.

And if that was her on the surveillance video, entering the lobby at eight 40, like that's minutes before. So I don't really know why the person would walk in, stand in front of the elevators for a couple minutes and then walk away. Like, I can't really explain that, but if that was her, then that would put her right there in like the heart of everything that was happening.

Um, another theory was that she could have been on the 107th floor of the north tower at the windows on the world restaurant. Um, cause remember, like I said before, she mentioned to her mother that she planned to go to that restaurant at some point to like check it out in advance since her friend was going to be getting married there in the spring.

So this restaurant was above the impact zone of the first plane that hit the tower and nobody who was in that restaurant at the time that the plane struck the building survived the attack. So if she was in that restaurant, when the plane hit, then she wouldn't have survived. Um, she also mentioned to her mother that if she were to make that trip to that restaurant, she also had planned, she wanted to go to like shop at the mall that was like underground at the world trade center, because it was like a whole like complex underneath the world trade center. It's like a whole shopping malls and stuff. So she said she wanted to go shop there.

So, you know, on her way, home from her night out, she could've like went into the mall there or something. And she could have been in the, in the buildings when, or in the complex or something or in the building and the restaurant when it all happened. So in that case, obviously she wouldn't have survived the attacks.

 A third theory that was kind of out there was that Sneha used the chaos of the attacks in order to flee and live a new life. It would be assumed that she died in the attacks. And so she could kind of like go on and be free and no one would think anything of it. So the question is that could she have snapped and chosen to run away? A major thing that debunks this is that all of her belongings, including her passport, her glasses, her credit cards, her driver's license and all that kind of stuff were left behind in the apartment.

So that seems like kind of a vital things are important things that you might want if you're going to be running away. Um, so kind of looks like that might not have been the case, but one thing that came out that really kind of like made this theory gain some traction was... I don't know if you guys are familiar, have you guys ever heard of like the website post secret at all?

I was going to say something about that. I read a book that was about like a people that would like submit secrets anonymously and something to do with the world trade center was in there. 

Yeah. So Post Secret was like like a website where people could log on and like put in anonymous secrets or confessions or whatever.

Um, so there was a post on the website in 2012. It was a hand drawn photo  of the burning twin towers with the words "everybody who knew me before 9/11 believes I'm dead." So many speculated that this could have been drawn and written by Sneha, which added more fuel to the theory that she used 9/11 as like a cover in order to disappear and live in new life.

Um, so those are like the major theories in the case, but if you're wondering, like why would she want to run away? Like why would she want to live a new life? Like that seems kind of random, well investigations and reports into her life turned up some interesting information about what may have really been happening in her world around the time that all that the attacks happened that might make it a little bit more possible or a little bit more clear.

So the couple had only been married for just over a year, by the time September 11th rolls around and the period of time directly before her disappearance seems to contradict like the external image of this perfect life that she seemed to be living.  So in the spring of 2001, Sneha was terminated from her medical residency program and the hospital cited frequent tardiness and problems with alcohol as the main reasons for her dismissal, she was told in the spring that her contract would not be renewed for the next year of the residency.

However, Sneha  was in the process of fighting this termination because she believed that there was other reasons why she was actually let go. And she believed that she was fired after rejecting the advances of a colleague at a bar on a night out. Um, so she, you know, went out with some people from the hospital and one of her colleagues had like hit on her, like touched her inappropriately. And this incident actually escalated and landed her behind bars for the night, according to New York magazine. And shortly after that, she filed a sexual harassment complaint in response to the incident. And so obviously this started a whole investigation and everything. And this investigation determined that the complaint that Sneha  had made was not credible and that she had fabricated it all after being terminated from the hospital.

So they kind of determined that she was just angry, that she was let go. So she kind of made up this complaint to sort of make it seem like there was other reasons for it, but she claims that it was like, because of that, she rejected the advances and then like the higher ups got pissed and like fired her. Whereas the hospital said that it was because she was frequently late and she had like problems with alcohol. 

I don't think you're allowed to fire someone because they have an addiction, but that's a different story. 

Yeah. You're definitely not. Um, I don't think you're allowed to fire someone cause they, they file a sexual harassment complaint either.

 Yeah, that's true. 

But I mean maybe the frequent tardiness is like, if she was always late, that could be a reason, but. Um, so we don't know the exact reasons for why she was terminated, but, um, an interesting detail. So on the morning of September 10th, so this would have been before, like I described like her day on the 10th like before she spent the afternoon in her apartment. And before she went and shopping at all those stores and stuff. So earlier that morning, she had actually attended a court hearing where she was pleading not guilty to this charge of filing a false complaint because they had filed charges against her because of that. So she went and she plead pled not guilty.

And they actually gave her like a choice, the hospital, or the law enforcement gave her choices. They said like, if you recant your statement, then you won't be charged. Like we can continue on, but she wouldn't recant her statement. She refused. So she had to go to fight this charge and she pled not guilty to the charge of filing a false complaint.

Um, 

Why would they give her a choice? I don't understand a choice to recant it or..? That doesn't really make any sense. 

Like, I know she was charged because you filed a false complaint, but if she recants it, then that's basically admitting that she filed the false complaint. It wasn't true so that they would drop it.

I don't know, like, it just seem kind of weird, but they basically gave her the choice, but she wanted to continue fighting it. So maybe that seems maybe, like be a little bit more like reason as to why it might've been true if she was that adamant about fighting. 

Oh, I was just gonna say like here in court, people recant like confessions all the time and they don't get like an extra charge for like lying. Right. So I think it's just like a second chance where you're like, are you sure you want to say that you can like take it back if you want, rather than this whole process of "well you lied". So we're going to charge you for that kind of thing. I think it kind of makes sense. 

Yeah. And so, like, I think, I think if you're looking at it, it's like if she really was lying, why would she not just recant it and like, forget that ever happened. is she she really that stubborn that she's going to, like, you know, I feel like the, the fact that she's fighting it made me provide a little bit more legitimacy to that. 

That's true. Like they were providing her with an out basically like, you know, if she thought that, oh, I messed up, this is my way out. She probably would have taken it. But yeah, like, because she's fighting it, then it probably was true. 

I feel so on the morning of September 10th, she was at that court hearing. Um, and it's actually reported that her husband, Ron was with her at the courthouse that day, but that the two had gotten into a huge argument reportedly about Sneha's substance use and bisexual behavior, which resulted in Sneha storming off and she left the courthouse super angry.

However, Ron went on to claim that this argument never happened and he denies that Shena had an alcohol or drug problem at all. That's like in like court records or police reports that this argument had happened at the courthouse. Since Sneha's contract with Cabrini medical center, wasn't renewed, she did get another job at Saint Vincent medical center, but this was suspended due to missing appointments with her substance abuse counselor, according to New York court records. So that's like her second sort of position at a hospital that was taken away because of similar reasons. So that makes you kind of think that she did sort of have an issue with alcohol or substance use of some sort, the fact that like the other hospital also terminated her.

Yeah. And I also think the fact that, you know, it was common for her to like go out and then come home early in the morning. That doesn't mean she has a problem, but I mean, how, how long can you keep up that lifestyle of partying all the time and coming home early in the morning, like that kind of thing.

So that could have had something to do with it as well. Like, yes, the alcohol made her tired and stuff, so it's kind of like all connected, but it doesn't necessarily mean it was because she was drunk that she couldn't come to work.  It was maybe she's just, you know, partying too much or something. 

Yeah. Like she was late because she was coming home from the bar early. That's why she was late for her work and stuff like that all the time. And there was, she wasn't drunk like on the job, but it was because she had been drinking the night before, which is, that never says explicitly that it was like intoxication at work.

 I guess. Yeah. When you say substance issues, I feel like, oh, it's because she's like an alcoholic and she's drinking at work or like showing up drunk. But yeah, it could just be, because she's so tired, it is affecting her work because he was drinking. 

But yeah. But like if she's not drunk at work, how do they know? Like, I mean, I guess maybe you can just tell if someone's hung over, I guess, but like, that's very different than like actually being intoxicated at work. Whether it's like actual proof versus like, oh, we think that you're hungover.. 

Yeah. Her colleagues might probably would have known if she was  asking them to go out every night.

Yeah. And some of them probably went out with their, maybe not every night, but you know, she might've been there every time people went out or something. So it was just kind of like, they knew her as that person. Yeah. And they were, and they ratted on her, I guess. 

Yeah. That's true. That's possible too. Who knows?

Um, yeah, so Ron like denies that she has any substance use issues. He does come forward and he does say that like she did start drinking a little bit more heavily, like after she got terminated from the hospital, like she went into a little bit of a depression after that because you know, she's pursuing this medical career, she went to med school, she has this residency. And like the fact that she was terminated because of this sexual harassment complaint that she had made, like the fact that she was terminated really kind of pushed her into this sort of funk and like depression. And then she started to drink a little bit more, but he said it was never like a full on like addiction at that point. It was just like, it was starting to become a little bit more heavy, but by the time. Like that she went missing like by the time that September 10 came like, it had been back to like her regular habits. It wasn't spiraling anymore at that point. So he does like acknowledge that, but says that she never had like a full-on substance use issue.

One of the reasons that Sneha's case gained traction as like a suspicious disappearance was because of the fact that she did seem to be living somewhat of a double life. And this was a double life that could have had dangerous consequences for her if she met with foul play on September 10th or early on in the early morning hours of September 11th.

So there were rumors circulating that SNI ha had, was possibly having affairs with women in the months leading up to her disappearance. So like I mentioned before, she did go out a lot and would sometimes spend nights crashing on couches at other places besides her own home. But the bars that you had known to frequent were actually popular gay bars.

And it was speculated that she wasn't crashing at the homes of friends or family members, but rather at the homes of like random strangers that she would meet at the bar on those nights. So one question is like, was the woman that the store employee claimed that she saw Sneha with on September 10th, was this someone that she was possibly seeing romantically, like that's an option. Um, and like a possible reason that like her family gave, um, or other podcasts that I've listened to about this case that kind of gave for like, why this might not be true, but like a pub, uh, reason why she may be frequently in gay bars could be that she felt more comfortable being at these bars where she wouldn't like be constantly hit on by guys and stuff like due to everything she was dealing with with the incident, with like sexual harassment stuff that was going on, like maybe she still wanted to be able to go out, but she didn't feel comfortable like going to. A regular bar so she would go to like gay bars and stuff like that, but that's never been confirmed. In a strange detail that gets added into all this, which is weird. Um,  Sneha and her brother, John were actually not on speaking terms at the time that she disappeared, because he allegedly claimed to a police officer that he had walked in on his then girlfriend in bed with Sneha a month prior to her disappearance.

However, John has gone on to vehemently deny ever saying this to investigators nor ever meeting the supposed officer who wrote that in the report. So my question is like, why would the cops lie about that? Like that seems like a super random detail to just make up out of nowhere. Like someone had to have told them that somewhere along the way, like how does like painting her as like this woman who was having an affair with her brother's girlfriend. Like how is that of any relevance to the case? Like, unless someone told them that, like, that's what I can't understand. 

Yeah. That doesn't make any sense to me. Why that would be a random made up fact. 

Yeah. Like we all know the police are shady. So I mean, but like, I mean, that's just...

But that has no relevance to the case, really. If like, if you're just making that up though, how would they know that? How would they, why would they make up that? 

I'm thinking, I think it leads into like the whole like double life theory. Like she was like having affairs with all these women, like leading this double life. But like that specific fact, like why was it her brother's girlfriend?

Like, and like the officer who says that in the report, like her brother said that he never even met that officer before in his life. Like he doesn't even, he never said that to the officer. He never met him. So I just think like, it's a very weird thing. Like, it's just like a weird, like picture to paint of this woman that has no relevance to anything, unless like the cops aren't just going to come up with that random detail. I don't think. But... 

so maybe he felt bad after she disappeared that he like said stuff about her, like that. And he wanted to take it back... I don't know. That's all I can think of. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Yeah. 

Yeah. So I feel like that is something that was definitely told to the police officers, by someone at some point the police aren't just going to make that up. I don't think anyway. Also Ron does admit that Sneha  would sometimes crash at the places of women that he met at the bars. Um, but he says that it was totally innocent. He says that they would talk, make art and listen to music until they fell asleep. Just like a totally innocent encounter. Ron says that they do not live a conservative lifestyle. Uh, so it might seem strange to like people on the outside, but he says that one of his hobbies. He's like a musician on the side and Sneha was very interested in art and painting and stuff. So they did live a portion of their lives with a very like artistic, like laissez-faire kind of attitude. So this could like make a night with a woman's Sneha met at a bar, like a totally innocent encounter with no underlying meaning. So it's like, is the family just in denial or are they trying to tidy up her image after the, in the aftermath of her disappearance? Or were they totally unaware of this double life that she was living? So I feel like it has to be one of those three options or why he would say that and like, try to defend her in that way. And maybe he is just in denial or maybe he just doesn't believe it. I don't know. 

Yeah. Maybe he just doesn't know, like maybe she was really like having affairs and stuff and just sleeping around. And he didn't actually know that because I mean, they only been married for a year, which really isn't that long to really know somebody unless they were knew each other way before that. You know what I mean?

 Like they met in 1995. So by the time she disappeared, they only knew each other for six years. 

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. And they only were married for a year, so I mean, who, yeah. Who knows what he really knew about her.

 And she could have been like, had the girlfriends in the past or like been that person. She was, he just never saw that side of her. 

Yeah. And maybe she was finally just like letting it out, like didn't want to hide it anymore. I don't know. It seems like this whole situation is like, she could have met with foul play some random person. She met at the bar and then this whole, the whole 9/11  thing. And it was like the perfect cover up for whoever did something to like, no, one's going to be paying attention to me right now. So yeah, 

like as it, as it turned out, September 11th is the best day to commit a murder. He would never, ever get caught. Probably like, you're just gonna get overshadowed by everything. So obviously people did not at the time 

Nobody's going to care what you're doing. 

Yeah. Like it's never, yeah. No investigation is going to be thorough at all, at least initially. 

Yeah. Because it can't be like you have like all manpower worried about other things. 

That like, like nobody cares about like a random murder. Unfortunately. Obviously people are caring about the thousands of people that just died in the world trade center.

Yeah. Especially, they're not going to care about a, like a random disappearance. Right. Like, obviously it's probably connected to the towers is what they're thinking. And obviously like they could just be somewhere else. Like that's not a priority. 

Yeah. Like if you go and you report somebody missing like thousands and thousands of people were reported missing after the attacks like vanish and unaccounted for.

So like I said, September 11th ended up being the best day to  to commit a crime or commit a murder, unfortunately. Yeah. And just like one more thing about like these like women that she would stay with. Um, Ron says that like one night, like the reason he like says that. She would like meet these women at bars.

And it was totally innocent.. It was like one night she like came home covered in paint because like, she was like painting with this random artist woman that she met at a bar. And like, she just like said it was super fun night. And like, we were like became friends. I dunno, whatever. So like he says like, oh, it was just totally innocent. It's like, she was just had like that artistic kind of creative side. So she was like drawn to people who were like really artistic or whatever. So, but 

I mean, was there ever any evidence that she was on drugs? Because I mean, you know, being up all night being covered in paint, like painting, having fun with random people, it just seems like a...

 LSD trip!

Yeah. Or like ecstasy, right? Like that just gets you way pumped for life. So, yeah. 

Yeah. Like there was never like never anything too. The only thing was like, they said alcohol-related issues with her residency program and also she didn't have she missed appointments with her substance abuse counselor at that other place. But that one didn't specify what substance, it just said substance abuse. 

... It could have been even like cocaine or something would keep you up. Right? Like meth, anything like could, yeah. Even, I guess alcohol could do that too. Depending. Yeah. 

She might've been caught up in like that kind of scene if she was, and then her husband, like was just kind of explaining their lifestyle. Like, yeah. We're like, no, we're kind of like free spirits or whatever. We just kind of like, whatever. So who knows what kind of stuff she might've been doing? So all of these like circulating rumors that were going around paint a different picture of Sneha.Like she was now a woman who was struggling at work, with a possible substance abuse problem, and possibly questioning her sexuality and meeting up with random women at gay bars in the city.

So, which portrait of Sneha is the correct one? Like we'll probably never know now, but it's possible. It could have been a combination of both. Like she was living that double life, she had the perfect life or she had, I don't really know for sure, but people say like all of that stuff, because she was struggling at work and like, she might've been like depressed and stuff like that. Like, that's kind of like reasoning for why people think like she might've used the attacks as like an excuse us to like disappear and live a new life, like just start fresh or whatever in a new city. So I'm going to go into a little bit now, but like the investigation and like the missing persons report. So the family did put up missing persons posters around the city and they did file a missing persons report in the days and the weeks after 9/11.

But like I mentioned earlier because of the thousands of people that were declared missing after the attacks, like having one case stand out, it's very difficult and the entire world was focused on the severity of it all. So the disappearance of this one woman who may not have been at all connected to the horror of the events was just not really a focus.

So one important detail in this case was like, in order to gain attention for her disappearance, Sneha's brother actually lied and said that he spoke with her during the attacks. So that was his story early on. He said that he spoke with her on the phone where she was saying that she was like at the world trade center and she was, she had to help a person who was injured.

So this placed her directly at the world trade center at the time of the attacks. And so he lied and he, cause he thought like, oh, she has a connection to that for sure. Then maybe it will drum up some interest in the case, since that was like all over the, like obviously 9/11 was the topic of the news at that time.

So he thought that if she had a connection to it, it might he people pay attention a little bit more. So that tactic did work and it helped her story, like gain traction in the media. And it was like all over the media networks and stuff at the time for a little bit. And so soon, lots of attention was on her case, but then it did come out later that this phone call with her brother was a lie and that her brother hadn't spoken to her.

So that did come out and obviously it didn't look good. Like what do you guys think happened to her? Do you think that she was just a victim of the attacks wrong place, wrong time? Or do you think she did meet with foul play on the night of the 10th? 

I am not convinced one way or the other. Like, I feel like it's super possible that she just could have been wrong place, wrong time and was killed in the attacks. But I also feel like it's not impossible to think that because of the lifestyle she lived, that something, somebody did something to her and it was just like the perfect coverup. And I mean, I also don't think it's super out of nowhere   to think that she took that opportunity to disappear and pretend she was dead to move on and start over. So I can't figure out either way what I think. 

Yeah. I'm in the same, same boat. Like I don't, um, well actually, no, I'm leaning more towards, she died in the 9/11 attacks, but like Katie said, like that is a possibility that she met with foul play and then that whoever killed her, used 9/11 as a perfect excuse to cover up. I'm kind of leaning towards more that she died in the 9/11 attacks.. Not really sure, not really a hundred percent sure on that one. 

Also, I think it's super good, drastic, and probably hard thing to do to pretend that you're dead and leave everything behind. But that's, I feel like probably a last resort. Maybe she just took it like, this is my chance. Yeah. 

When I was researching this case and stuff, and like that theory was coming up. It's like, I just don't think that would be something that would be on your mind at that time. Like if you're in New York city on the day of the attacks, like I think that kind of takes over everything, like in the moment as the attacks are happening, like you have no idea what's happening in the world. Like you think the world's coming to an end, you know, like, I don't think it's really gonna cross your mind that like, oh, now is a perfect opportunity for me to leave. You know, I feel like anything that's happening in your life at the hospital. Like that seems so small in comparison. 

Yeah. And like, yeah, that's true. And you're not going to be like, oh, I want to run away and be alone. You're going to be like, I want to be with my family, you know, make sure they're okay. And that kind of thing, rather than being like I'm out of here. Yeah. Maybe she like, couldn't get, she couldn't contact anybody. Like you were saying, she couldn't get home.

And like she had time to kind of like, you know, soak it all in before she made that decision too. Maybe she, like, she couldn't get ahold of anybody through the phone. Like she couldn't, she didn't go home or she couldn't get home or something. And so it took like a few days maybe before she even could. 

Yeah. But like, if, like, if that was her in the surveillance video at 8:40, like she was in the building.. Like she was in the vicinity. So she would've, should've been able to get home. Right. Like if she's right there, like they live four blocks from it. And her husband was able to get out into the apartment the next day. And he was in the Bronx when it happened. Like he was able to, 

I guess, but maybe she wasn't close though. Like she could have been out if that, maybe that I'm thinking that wasn't her in the video. Like, that's just what I'm thinking. And then she was out someone's random house and like, everything was shut down the subway. She, there was no way for her to get home. Maybe, I don't know how long it would have taken days or maybe hours, but maybe she just, it was enough time for her to like, think about the situation and decide that she was going to leave. Rather than doing it right away, as soon as they hit soon as they hit, like yeah, I'm leaving that. Like, you know what I mean? So, 

yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's possible.. 

I'm also thinking maybe if that was her in the surveillance camera, camera, maybe she came home to talk to her husband about what's going on in her life and maybe she wanted to leave him, but then changed their mind and walked out of the building.

Yeah. That's that's possible too. But she probably would have known that he wasn't at home because she knew that he was going leaving early. So she goes into the apartment lobby at eight 40. Like she knows that he's not going to be home, but if actually just thought of this now, but the only thing, like, according to, if you like, according to the reports about them going to court on the September 10th, that would have been the last time that he would have seen her, was at the courthouse, which apparently they had a big, huge fight and she walked away.

So that was literally the last time he saw her. He says that they didn't have a fight, but now I'm thinking like, oh, maybe he's denying that they had a fight. Was he involved somehow like in her disappearance and like he saying, oh no, we didn't have a fight. Like it was fine. Cause maybe that would like cast light on because if that's the last time he saw her and it wasn't on good terms, 

that's true. He could have done something and then, you know, 9/11 happened and he's like, I can't find her anywhere. 

Yeah. Like, I don't know. It's probably not, I don't know. I could just be thinking about it, but like, 

yeah. I feel like that's not the most probable thing. 

Yeah. Which is interesting because, so like I said, they filed the missing persons report and they, her brother lied about speaking with her on the day of the attacks.

They actually hired a PI to like look more into this. And the PI was the one that kind of like got a lot of these details. Like we don't think she died in the attacks. Like we think she was met with foul play on the night of September 10th. So they think like if she was with this other woman at the store, that person could like be the one that did something to her. That's the last person that they know that she was with. Um, or like wherever she took those shopping bags and all of this stuff, wherever she left, those bags should obviously left them somewhere someone's house that person might know could have done something to her or knows what happened to her, or at least a little bit more information.

But anyway, so they were kind of adamant about that. But then in the years following this, they kind of like changed their tune because then it was the family that was advocating and trying to have Sneha deemed an official victim of 9/11. On June 29th, 2006 however, a judge deemed that there was not enough evidence to place her near the world trade center when the attacks happened.

So they denied the family's request. And then at this time her legal date of death was claimed to be September 10th, meaning that there was now a possible homicide on their hands. So it was kind of the courts that at that time deemed it, like we can't place her at the world trade center. We don't have enough evidence to ever suggest that. However, the family did appeal this decision and they went through the whole appeals process and everything, and took a couple years. And then in January, 2008, the courts ruled in their favor and they declared Sneha an official victim of the attacks as that is the most likely scenario for her disappearance.

They say, you know, her apartment's  proximity to the towers, her possible trip to the windows on the world restaurant or her plans to go to the shopping mall under the world trade center, all of these things would be things that would place her in the immediate danger zone at the time of the attack. 

Well, it's interesting that they just, they didn't find further evidence that she wasn't there. They just, that they just couldn't find any other evidence otherwise. So they're like, well, maybe she was there. 

Yeah. And also like an interesting detail too, is like,  Sneha didn't...  even though she would stay over at other people's places overnight, like that's why Ron wasn't like concerned. Cause she would do that.

He was annoyed that she didn't call by the next morning. So that leads me to believe that like, she would always call the previous times. It's like, why this time did she not call? If she always would to let her know where she was? 

That's interesting. Maybe she was like, actually mad at him from their fight. So she's like out of spite, like, I'm just like, I'm not going to call them. Did you have a look? 

Did they have a look at like the bar, like surveillance cameras at the bars? 

No, not that I could see in, uh, but they don't know what bars she was at. Don't know where she was 

and that was probably not their priority.

Right. They probably weren't looking for that kind of stuff, like anywhere near when this happened. Right. Cause they're obviously concerned about the world trade center is probably by the time they got around to that, maybe there just wasn't any footage left. I don't know. 

Yeah. I mean, there was like a few bars that she was like known to frequent.

So like they could have like checked the surveillance video there, but maybe they didn't have security cameras in the bars or. Maybe they just, I don't know, but it was the PI that like found all this other stuff. So I assume that like, they would have tried that because like, obviously if they found something it would have been reported on.

So the fact that there's nothing, it's probably didn't lead to anything. So the only surveillance video they have for sure is that she left at a shoe store at 7:18 PM. And that possible sighting of her at eight 40 the next morning. But there's still like that 13 hour window between that. So we don't know where she was.

She didn't call her husband. She didn't have any contact with her husband at all. If this other woman existed that she was at the store with like, that person didn't come forward. Like no one ever came forward ever to say they were ever with her, never saw her out anywhere. And obviously she didn't stay with a friend or a family member.

So it would've been some random person that's from the bar, that person never came forward either unless they did something to her or that person died in 9/11 too. Or like maybe that person has a family too. And they just don't want to like admit to. 

Yeah. Or like, just so much happened with 9/11, that by the times people thought about it, like that person that was with her, like just didn't even know that they were talking about her.

Like, they could've just been some random girl she  met at a bar and she never thought twice about it, maybe. 

And then still has all of her stuff that she bought, like all these pairs of shoes and stuff that none of that's the other podcasts that I listened to. They're like, they don't know what size of the bed.

And they're like the size of the bed, like for her bed at like that her house or her apartment, or it's like another size bed or something. I dunno.

 Yeah. That's a good point. And that they know that the size of the lingerie  she bought like does it fit her or would it fit somebody else, you know? Like, was she buying them for herself?

Why would she not go back to the apartment and drop it off before going out to the bar? Like, they're going to take that stuff to the bar with you, unless you plan to use it that night. 

Yeah. Who wants to carry a bunch of extra stuff around at the bar, especially you're going to be out late. That's just something that, 

yeah.

So it's like, she obviously went to someone's house after that because the store is right next to her next door to her house or apartment, it would have been easy to just go back to the apartment, drop it off and then go. But she didn't. So it makes me think that like, the stuff that she bought was like for that night.

Yeah. That's true. 

So like, I don't know, but also her husband, like that Amex card that she used, like, he kept that Amex account open just in hopes that maybe if she used it, it would like pop up, like, but obviously nothing did, there was no activity on any of that or any of her bank account. 

That was my next question.

Actually. I was just thinking that like anybody check her, like the credit card? 

I think they found her credit cards or bank cards or driver's license or passport. So she had no ID on her. She was going to go to a bar. I mean, maybe they didn't ...weren't going to ID her at the bar. Um, if she was like, you know, commonly there like they knew her.

How old is she? Maybe she looked old. 

She was, she was at, she was 30, 31. 

Oh. At the time. Totally, definitely would have been ID'd yeah. She had more than one ID. Maybe she had a fake ID, like for somebody else's name. I don't know that's a stretch  but you never know. But also I think like, obviously she's someone that likes to shop and so like her starting over with no money and like no bank account  would be super hard for her, you know? And unless she ran off with somebody 

yeah. Like maybe she planned to, but like she plans to leave with somebody. So like the last thing she's going to buy is like lingerie, bed sheets and shoes, and like leaves with her like leaves passport behind or driver's license. 

Maybe she wasn't actually planning on doing it then.

And then just happens when she's just like, well, let's just go, I guess. I don't know. It's that seems farfetched, but could be possible. I just can't imagine leaving with no money, no ID and being able to get very far, especially someone that like her obviously to like to shop and stuff and go out and drink and party at bars. Like, can you do that if you have any money? So, 

and especially if she wanted to go like run off somewhere, she didn't have a passport with her so she couldn't get very far.. 

Yeah, exactly. Like she's not gonna leave the country. If she doesn't have a passport, no ID on her at all no driver's license.

Yeah. Everything got so much more strict that like, um, 

She wouldn't be able to fly anywhere without any of that. So like all the points too, like she left that stuff behind, so she didn't plan to be leaving at least at that point. But then like you said, yeah, 9/11 happened and then she's like, oh, it's a good opportunity to...

But like, and we don't necessarily know that she never, I mean, I guess we do. I was gonna say we will never know know that we, she never returned to the apartment after that surveillance video at 7:18 but I'm pretty sure, like, well, she didn't leave the bags. It was, she didn't drop the bags off, but like, she might've went back to the apartment then, but she didn't drop the bags off, but she didn't, she never went to the apartment after the towers fell.

Because like when he entered it there was  no footprints, and it was covered in dust. So she was never there after that. There's no accounts of her anywhere after the attacks happened and potentially not even after the 10th, unless that video at 8:40 AM was her. The court declaration makes Sneha the 2751st victim official victim of 9/11, her remains have never been found just like the remains of so many of the other victims who were declared dead as a result of the attacks.

So many families have yet to receive closure due to bodies, not being discovered or identified in the rubble. And there is a world trade center Memorial. That's at ground zero at the site of ground zero. The Memorial has like a wall that kind of surrounds like the outline of both of the towers and the walls have the names of all of the victims and panel S-66 of this Memorial displays Sneha's name. Sneha's parents have since stopped attending Memorial services that were held at ground zero. Like every year on 9/11, they hold the service. They used to go, but they stopped. Um, but they see that they do visit the Memorial at the site on her birthday every year and in a 2016 article

so this is the latest one I could find where her parents were interviewed, but they said that they have kept her old bedroom in their home the same for the past 15 years, keeping it as a Memorial to. And her husband, Ron still remains close with his former in-laws and he eventually remarried in 2010 with their blessing.

So they're still hoping that potentially some of her remains are identified because they still have the personal effects, like thousands of like these like random items that were collected from the rubble. Um, so like she did, she always wore this like one choker necklace that her husband had given her when they got married.

And they're hoping like someday that's recovered. Um, cause I, my understanding is that there's just like thousands and thousands of pieces of stuff that was collected that still needs to be claimed or yeah, like they're still identifying, like, I'm pretty sure I saw, like on the 20th anniversary they actually identified another victim. Like, so somebody for 20 years that they never identified, but then they eventually did they put a name to like those remains. So I guess the family is still hoping that eventually, maybe. But they never, ever did find her body. Um, so yeah, that's the case of  Sneha Anne Phillip, but do you guys think any, you guys think that she died the attacks?

I don't know. And I'm like, I just such an unfortunate day for everybody that during like 9/11, like not just for her parents, but for everybody else, but I don't know if... maybe she did die in the, in the 9/11 attacks. I'm not really sure. 

kind of seems like the most likely scenario that she did. Right. And just cause like, so many people haven't been identified that died. Yeah. I feel like maybe it wasn't a coincidence that something happened to her that that day 

and just like, uh, just like, well, they live block only a couple blocks from the world trade center. So like she could in the direct vicinity of it. So, you know, you're not going to, and because she was a med, a doctor, like people think that she would have been like the first to like rush in and help people. She saw them. She could have been like in the middle of all that. And then when the towers collapsed like she was just killed then. Or maybe she was up in that restaurant on the hundred seventh floor.

But like, that seems random like that she's going to go then like on her way home after a night out this, now I'm going to go in the clothes I wore last night. And I'm going to go and check out this fancy restaurant at eight in the morning. Random. Yeah. Yeah. So I dunno.

I just find it weird that none of those items that you bought ever turned up.

Yeah. I know.

 Like where did they go? Somebody has them somewhere. Someone is laying down on the sheets she bought! 

I know, like I know

Like where are those three pairs of shoes that she bought?

 Yeah. Someone's wearing them, I guess. I don't know. That's the thing, like, obviously they're at someone's house, they're at someone's house.

Someone has them like, obviously 

yes, somebody obviously has them. And even if they tried to like contact her afterwards, because she left her stuff there. I think if she'd left it there purposefully, then she obviously knew them enough to. You know, I'm going to come back for them or, you know, you have my number or something, you know what I mean? You don't just leave stuff at someone's house randomly, you know what I mean? So it was like someone she knew enough to leave stuff. There is what I'm thinking if she did 

Well, and if that, if that person was at eight on the surveillance video at eight 40 was her, she, that person didn't have bags with them. So if it was her, she was returning back to the apartment without that stuff.

So it must've been somebody that she knew. Yeah. So 

she gave it to somebody to keep or hold onto until I come back or something, you know, but like 

if she was having an affair and stuff and like, those are items that she didn't want her husband to know that she had bought, like, obviously she's going to keep, yeah.

That could be her stuff that she's keeping at her girlfriend's house or 

something, but then this person never came forward ever. It's just weird though, too, that like in 2006, the judge said, oh, there's not enough evidence to place her at world trade center at the world trade centers. So we're not going to say that she was there and then like a year and a half later they said, oh, nevermind, like we're saying, she is. But there was no other evidence after that to suggest either way. So 

yeah. It's either that or like a homicide investigation. So I guess that was easier. I don't know. Yeah. Maybe like the PI just couldn't give any more evidence and there was just like, this is probably the most likely thing, like everything's pointing to.

She probably died there and that's, you know, it turned them, I guess. 

Yeah. Yeah. That's true. So yeah. Interesting case it's just like interesting because it's like, it's most likely to, she was just that she was one of the victims of 9/11 but like the fact that her last known whereabouts are  actually the day before that nothing's ever been confirmed after the 10th. So it makes it a little bit unique and 

there's that possibility somebody could have got away with something...

 if like that post on the website was her. She's still out there somewhere. 

That's true. Yeah. And just like never going to come forward. 

But I feel like if she is like adament or like, she really wants to disappear, like she's not going to like tempt fate and like post that, like why wouldn't she just stay?

I know maybe she just had to get it out there and just like, I just had to admit it. 

Yeah. And it was like a hand drawn picture of the tower. So people thought like, oh, she was like an artist and she like, she was into painting. So like, maybe like I'm like, yeah. But there's like billions of people who are into painting.

So, yeah. 

It's interesting. 

Interesting. So, um, yeah, that's the case. So thank you guys for listening, you can follow us on social media, on Instagramwe're @crimefamilypodcast, on Twitter@crimefamilypod1 and on Facebook at Crime Family Podcast. You can email us some of your case suggestions. at crimefamilypodcast@gmail.com

And we'd love to read your suggestions, your emails, your feedback, and also leave us a review on apple podcasts if you listen there because leaving reviews makes people know about the show and what you think of the show and it helps support. So thank you guys for listening and uh, we'll be back next week with another episode. So take care. 

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