Crime Family

S02E17: THE MURDERS OF STEFANO SAVIOLI AND CHANTEL GILLADE

January 05, 2022 AJ, Katie & Stephanie Porter Season 2 Episode 17
Crime Family
S02E17: THE MURDERS OF STEFANO SAVIOLI AND CHANTEL GILLADE
Show Notes Transcript

When Stefano Savioli was murdered on Cortes Island, BC, the RCMP offer up very little detail about what happened that night in 2010. Over a decade later, not even an official cause of death has been released leaving a sense of uneasiness looming over the island.  

Chantel Gillade was only 28 years old when her life was tragically stolen from her. Her death sparked rumours of connections with a Canadian serial killer, but no suspect has been named in this case, over 2 decades later.

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EPISODE RESOURCES

The Fifth Estate.
My father's killer: Murder mystery on Cortes Island. October 28, 2019.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCUT5K3AWi8 

CBC. Mounties closing in on suspect in 2010 homicide that haunts B.C. island community, court documents say. By Harvey Cashore, Kimberly Ivany, Mark Kelley · October 26, 2019
 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/cortes-island-homicide-rcmp-investigation-stefano-savioli-1.5331115 

CBC.  Son of slain B.C. artist demands RCMP revive dormant investigation as new details emerge. By Harvey Cashore, Lynette Fortune, Joseph Loiero . Mary 26, 2019.· https://www.cbc.ca/news/fifthestate/cortes-island-killing-investigation-rcmp-1.5070626 

Cortes Island. Stefano Remembered. https://www.cortesisland.com/cgi-bin/tideline/show_article_attachment.cgi?TY=ar&ID=3160&F=Stefano_Remembered.pdf&X=1603278007000/Stefano_Remembered.pdf 

Vancouver Police Department Youtube Channel. BC Crime Stoppers Video. Nov 8, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CIp-B2Y5qk  

Global News. Crime Stoppers: Cold case homicide of Chantel Gillade in Vancouver. By the Staff. Updated June 19, 2018 https://globalnews.ca/news/2975998/cold-case-homicide-of-chantel-gillade-in-vancouver/

Websleuths. Canada - Chantel Gillade, 28, found in a downtown alley, Vancouver, 1995. 
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/canada-chantel-gillade-28-found-in-a-downtown-alley-vancouver-1995.312931/ 

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Stefano Savioli and Chantel Gillade

Katie: Hey, everyone. Welcome to crime family. I'm your host, Katie. And I'm here with Stephanie and AJ, my brother and sister. So today we are going to have two cases for you. They're both unsolved murders coming out of British Columbia, and we're doing two because there's not a lot of info on either one of them.

And so it kind of makes them a little bit more mysterious. So the first one that we have for you is Stefano Savioli. And the second one is Chantel Gillade. So we're going to get right into Stefano Savioli and AJ will start us off. 

AJ: All right. So actually didn't know much about this case until somebody brought it to my attention.

So we got an email back in September, actually. Um, and the email was titled RCMP file number 2 0 1 0 dash 7 5 9 5. So the email reads, “HI, hope this finds you well. I am writing in to bring to your attention that Stefano Savioli's unsolved homicide case from 2010 in Cortes island, BC with RCMP file number 2010-7595. 

It was covered by CBCs the Fifth Estate in 2019. I was wondering if you would take a look into it or if you already have. It is baffling that nobody has been publicly identified 11 years on, however. I attached a few links below to news pieces and the aforementioned documentary parts. To my understanding, no podcasts has covered this case.

Big fan of your work. Looking forward to hearing back." And then they sent a bunch of links to some things about the case. Um, and the email, like the name, there's no name of this person. So, if you're listening. Thank you for your email. The name that comes up for the, like the email just says Cortes 2010 case.

That's the name. So I wish we could give you a shout out, but yes, thank you for your email. And it brought the case to our attention. So we're going to cover it in this episode. 

Katie: Okay. So I'm just gonna get right into it. So Stefano Savioli was born in Roma, Italy on September 26th, 1949. And he moved to Chatham, Ontario with his wife and son Cristiano in 1977.

This is before he discovered Cortes island in British Columbia in 1980. So when Stefano first traveled to Cortes island, he kind of fell in love with it right away. And that's why he decided to move him in his family there. He thought he had found his little piece of paradise. And so Cortes island is north of Vancouver and it takes three ferry rides to get there.

And Cortes Island is super tiny. Like when I say tiny, it's only 25 kilometers long, and it's a total area of 130 square kilometers. So for a comparison, we're familiar with the province of Prince Edward Island in Atlantic, Canada, which is about 556 square kilometers. And it has a population of 156,000. And so Cortes has, has a population of around 1000.

So that's just how super small this place is. So you can imagine just how close knit of a community it is between all the locals. They were really welcoming of the Savioli family when they first arrived there. And so with this kind of small close knit community, there's often times like a sort of understanding that the locals all look out for each other and take care of each other.

And in a Fifth Estate episode called My Father's Killer: Murder Mystery on Cortes island, they suggest that the draw to Cortes island for some people was kind of the appeal of a sense of lawlessness in a way where in fact there was a moral code amongst the locals to watch out for each other and kind of have each other's backs like that kind of thing.

And it's not like it was a lawless land. I mean, it was still part of Canada. So, but I think we just kind of like how remote it was. People just kind of felt like the were on their own in a good way. And so people went there to maybe escape from reality. So Stefano was a passionate artist and Cortes island became the backdrop to a lot of his work. 

And he had inherited a family fortune. So he was able to spend a lot of time on his art. For the most part, Stefano was well-liked on this little island and apparently in the early days, he was the only one around that had a bathtub with running water. So all the neighbors used to come and use his running water.

So it was like a luxury on the island back then in the nineties, I guess. But according to one of his former girlfriends named Esther who was interviewed in this Fifth Estate Episode, he had a complicated personality and not everyone particularly liked him. Like he was controlling over certain things and she kind of described it just kind of like an old school controlling.

Cause he was the man kind of thing. But she said it was nothing to be afraid of. However, there was another former girlfriend of his named Carla who had a young son named Marco. They had lived with him for five years previously. And she said that Stefano beat her one time when she didn't make his lunch, the way that she liked it.

And she said that he held an axe up to her throat for like two hours saying that he had to kill her. She said that he going to just completely flipped a switch in a way and turned into a monster. It's not clear if this was like a one time incident where he beat her or if it was an ongoing thing. Either way, she was obviously scared, but she was with him for five years.

She didn't really have a way to get away from the situation. So I guess there's just mixed reviews here about Stefano. From what I can gather, he was, I guess, a pretty decent guy. Like people liked him. He was popular. And he was very generous to the locals and maybe he did have a little bit of a controlling side and lost his temper, at least once that we know of, but that's all we really know about him.

So Stefano and his wife at the time had a son named Cristiano and when they divorced his wife moved back to Italy and she took Cristiano with her and Stephano decided to stay on Cortes island, because like I said, that was his own little piece of paradise. Cristiano would come back and spend the summers with his dad on the island.

So he spent about two or three summers there with his dad, but Cristiano explains that he didn't have the best relationship with his dad. They had issues that had caused them to lose contact, but they eventually did makeup. And try to have a father son relationship again, and according to the Fifth Estate, they reconciled their relationship just three months before Stefano died.

So this island, like I said, was a very peaceful existence for most of the locals. And it was like an escape from the outside world for its residents, including Stefano. The island's, peaceful atmosphere was only a mirage though, because there was one event that shifted the whole mood on the island, as it brought reality, closer to home. 

And people can still kind of feel that mood shift. And what caused that mood shift was Stefano's mysterious murder. And when I say mysterious, it's because it's still unsolved, but the cause of death has actually never been released to the public. So we really don't even know what caused his death.

AJ: Do we know why it wasn't released to the public?

Like, is it one of those things where they're trying to keep all the information they can as close as they can or do they just don't know? 

Katie: I think they do know because I'll get into like some of the things that the locals said cause they had to clean up the crime scene, but you'll find the police really held almost like the entire case close to their chest.

Like they didn't want to let any information out. So people really didn't know anything about this case for like over a decade until Cristiano kind of pushed back at the RCMP. So I'm not sure they just didn't know, or they're just trying to hold stuff close, but either way they, it still hasn't been released to this day.

So on Friday, August 10th, 2010 Stefano's body was found in his cliff top cabin by his 16 year old stepson named Samuel and there's rumors that Stefano was bludgeoned with a hammer. And some sources also say that some people say that he was stabbed but like I said, the cause of death was never released by RCMP and his friends who had to clean up that crime scene.

And according to reporting by Harvey Cashore, Kimberly Ivany and Mark Kelley for CBC news, the crime scene was horrific and there was blood spatter up into the rafters. And so that's kind of why they think it was obviously a very aggressive, vicious attack. With some sort of weapon, like a hammer. A local of the island tells the Fifth Estate, that it wasn't like a robbery that had gone bad or anything because nothing was stolen.

And Stefano's wallet was still there in the house with him. On the night of the murder Stefano called Cristiano at 9:00 PM that night. Cristiano tells the Fifth Estate that he said, quote, "please do me a favor. Start to enjoy life. It's time to have fun." End quote.. But Cristiano claims that his father never revealed that, you know, he said this for like any particular reason.

He wasn't scared for his life. He wasn't worried about somebody or anything coming after him. So it was just kind of like a coincidence that he was having this kind of deep conversation to his son, the night that he died. So at the time of his murder, Stefano lived with his wife, Abigail and her son, Samuel , who I mentioned earlier, and Samuel lived in the cabin that was next door to Stefano and Abigail's cabin. So on the property, they had two cabins as well as a studio. And when Stefano died, Abigail inherited the property and the Canadian side of his fortune. So to investigate Stefano's murder, the major crimes team of the RCMP was sent in and they had divers searching in the harbour , trying to find a murder weapon and they spent weeks investigating.

But after that, there was nothing else that the RCMP would tell the family or the public about the murder. Like it just went completely silent after that for years. And almost a decade later into 2019 this is when Cristiano travels back to Cortes island to try and figure some things out. And that's when he makes this Fifth Estate episode.

And he's putting up posters, offering $10,000 reward. And he talks to the locals. Many of them already know him as soon as they see him. Um, they know that he's Stefano's son. Cristiano explains that his relationship with Abigail so his father's ex-wife is very complicated. And although she still lives on the island, he doesn't care to visit her or talk to her at all while he visits the island.

But he does go visit Esther Stefano's ex-girlfriend like I mentioned earlier. So there's just something about the relationship between Cristiano and Abigail, that was not good. Both Abigail and Samuel refuse to talk to the Fifth Estate when they reached out, but they did receive a call from Abigail.

And this is what she said. Quote, "I'm really not happy about what you guys are doing. Actually super unhappy and it's not okay. Only the police can answer your questions. You need to stop doing that." End quote. So Marco, who I'd mentioned earlier with the son of an ex-girlfriend named Carla. And he emailed the producers of the, Fifth Estate as well after they had asked if he wanted to participate or comment on anything.

And he said, quote, "Do you think anyone cares about the past? I will oppose you with all means necessary and no regards. If I see you on Cortes and I find out you were researching, I will combat you. Try me." End quote. There's obviously some people who just kind of want to let the past stay in the past.

Don't want stuff to be dug up and Abigail and Marco seem to be some of those people. One interesting point though, Abigail, who was Stefano' s ex wife and Marco who was Stefanos ex-girlfriend's son are now a couple, or at least they were back in 2019. So that's kind of a weird twist of events.

AJ: Wait, sorry who's a couple? His ex-wife...

Katie: And his ex-girlfriend's son. Yeah. So Carla, the one that said he held an axe up to her throat, her son is now dating his ex-wife. So I can imagine there's a big difference in age there. Cortes Island is really small, you know, not a lot of people, so that's what's going on. So all of the people in Stefano's life were questioned by the police originally when it first happened, but nothing came from that at all. And some theories surrounding the murder are maybe drug dealers were involved, even though there was no evidence that Stefano was into drugs or sold drugs, or did drugs of any kind. And there's also speculation that Stefano's family money was Italian mafia built.

And so people are thinking that maybe it was a hit that was put on him. Cristiano who says that the mafia theory is complete bullshit. Like there's no way his family's connected to the mafia. Like he would know.

AJ: That's what someone in the mafia would say.

Katie: That's true. But also if he, his family was connected with the mafia, I feel like Cristiano was not going to be trying to figure out who did it, because I would probably just get him in trouble with the mafia. So,.

AJ: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. 

Katie: Maybe he just doesn't know it was the mafia if it really was, but I don't know. But that theory just seems to be like, not a thing that's possible. So, and some people also speculate that whoever killed Stefano must have known him and where he slept, or at least knew the property because it was a very large property and there was more than one cabin. It doesn't seem plausible that they would just stumble across this property, stumble into his cabin.

You kind of had to know where you're going and be on a mission for this kind of thing. Especially that time of night. Like you're not just going to stumble into someone's cabin that late. So Cristiano said that since Cortes Island is such a small isolated island there should only be like a handful of suspects.

And of course he is beyond frustrated that the case has stalled. And people think that the killer is still living on Cortes Island and was a local that knew Stefano. So it seems like there's a killer living amongst people. But then again, some people are so like, well let's, nobody wants to talk about it.

Let's just leave it as it is. Like I said, people have each other's back and they look out for each other and it seems like some people are looking out for the murderer. Some people are looking out for Stefano. So it's like a divide between what side people are on. 

Steff: It kind of goes back to that case we did with the Hannibal community where everyone was so close knit.

Nobody wants to say anything, whatever happens. Like nobody's going to say anything cause they don't want the truth to come out. especially in a , small community. 

Katie: Yeah. So we've seen that with other cases as well. Like the Tara Grinsted case, it was like, people just don't want to get involved. Don't want to say anything like that kind of thing. 

AJ: Well like a thousand people is so small too.

Katie: I know it really is so small. 

AJ: They have to know something. Somebody has to know somebody who knows somebody like.

Steff: And the most frustrating thing about this case is that the police aren't saying anything or releasing any information about anything, about the case, like how he died or what they found when they did the investigation, or like, it's just, I don't understand, like, it's frustrating when cops don't really give you any information on what happened. 

AJ: Could it be a police coverup? Like, do you think the police covering it up or something like how you have a pool of a thousand people. Like, I feel like for a police officer that that's a super easy job, get them all in one room. 

Katie: Maybe they didn't know how to handle this kind of thing.

That's why they brought in the major crimes team. But I don't know.

AJ: I feel like they would have to bring in outside people. Like it's probably with out of their scope. They probably aren't- have never dealt with a case this severe before in this small community. So they have to bring outside people and then it's like, you have, might be better because then you have an outside perspective.

Not someone who's going to be biased by, you know, everyone knows everyone, so it might be better to have an outsider come in in, you know? 

Katie: Yeah. That's true. Police officers that live there, would obviously know Stefano. So yeah, it probably would be better than someone who didn't know him at all. Kind of like an objective look at the case.

So because the RCMP have refused for so long to release any evidence of the public or to Stefano's family regarding the case. The Fifth Estate actually took the RCMP to court, demanding that they release more information about the case. And the judge actually ruled in their favor and the RCMP were ordered to hand over some of the police records and reports to the Fifth Estate.

And so in the, Fifth Estate , they're kind of going through some of these reports and they find that a lot of things, names are redacted, which is probably, you know, to keep the integrity of the case. You don't want people's names in there like suspects, but they did discover that there was crime scene evidence discovered in the next cabin next door to Stefano's and that was Samuel' s cabin.

So they thought that that was of interest. They also discovered that according to these reports, the investigation was botched. There were search warrants that were so sloppy that the judge rejected them. And there was evidence collected with what they thought was DNA present, but they didn't actually test this evidence for three years after collecting it, which seems crazy.

And there's nothing really comes out about what if there was DNA, what kind of DNA, whose DNA it was like that kind of just where it stopped. It took three years for them to test these items. . So these reports also revealed that there was a suspect identified early on and that due to quote "strategic inactivity" end quote, that lead went dormant in 2015. The RCMP do come forward and say that they are still actively working on this case, but they need to keep all the info close to not compromise their investigation.

So that's kind of all they say about it still saying they need to keep everything close to them. For whatever reason. Maybe they just don't have a ton of evidence. So what they do have needs to be confidential in case somebody knows something that they haven't released. 

AJ: I think in a small community, it's even more important to keep it close to the vest, because I feel like it's so much more easy to get compromised if, because everyone knows everyone who knows everyone.

So it's all public knowledge. Like, I don't know. I just feel like it might be easier in a small community for things to get out of hand, if it's all public knowledge versus if it was a big city. 

Katie: Yeah. And I think that if they did release things, like people could jump to conclusions and maybe like point fingers at somebody that they know because of the evidence that came out.

But it's not true at all. And it could, you know, accuse people and just mess up everybody's life. So one of Abigail's friends tells the Fifth Estate that Abigail had said that the police had suspected it was Samuel , who had committed the murder. So they had told Abigail this back in the early days, Abigail confided in her friend about this and the Fifth Estate does reach out to Samuel in an email. So remember Samuel was Abigail's son. So it was Stefano's stepson who was sleeping in the cabin next door at the time of the murder. So the Fifth Estate reach out to Samuel in an email and they tell him that they are planning to report that the police suspected him of the murder and they call him and he hangs up, like he doesn't want to talk to them at all.

And I guess I don't blame him for that at all, because , I feel like if the police thought he was a suspect back then, but he hasn't been arrested yet. There either isn't enough. Or they've ruled him out and Samuel' s, just trying to move on or just keep his name out of it. Like he was only 16 when he found his stepfather brutally murdered.

So it's either probably hard for him to process, wants to move on from it. And doesn't want to be involved in, you know, the Fifth Estate coming all up in his business. 

AJ: Do we know like obviously Cortes Island is super remote? Like, is it easily accessible? Like, is there ferries that go there frequently?

Because I'm like.

Katie: It takes three ferries to get out there. So it takes, almost , takes like a whole day just to get out to that island.

AJ: Oh shit. So it's like less likely than it would be someone outside. I feel like if it's like, I mean, I don't know if it's a professional hit. I mean, they're going to go the distance to do it, but like, I feel like the average person wouldn't go through that much effort.

Katie: And I feel like if it was an outsider. it's not like they could just have a quick getaway. They had to wait for like the next ferry to come and then that ferry and the next ferry. So it's not like they were like, let's get out of here fast. Cause it's gonna take all day. But also, I mean like people have cabins there that don't live there full time they go visit.

So it could've been somebody just visiting. But the person would probably have to say the night, like it takes all day to get there. 

AJ: Could they have flown in? 

Katie: I don't know. Maybe that's a good point. There could be flights that come in actually. Well, yeah, because it shows Cristiano actually getting into a little plane in the episode. So I don't know, probably like little planes come in, but yeah, I don't know why people would be so convinced that it's a, it is a local, cause it is possible that it could be somebody on the outside, but then I guess they said they have to know the property well.

AJ: Well, it seems kind of like a personal, like to bludgeoned them or if that was the cause of death to like hit them with a hammer.

I don't know. That just seems personal and super random if they're not going to then steal from them. Or do you know, like to travel , if it's an outsider, they're going to travel all that way, that remote location to bludgeoned this person to death and not steal anything and then leave. Like that's random. 

Katie: Yeah. That is really random. 

Steff: When I was first doing this case, I was thinking like, maybe like if they would steal like his artwork, maybe it was worth something or something and they could, but nothing was stolen. So I feel like they just killed him because they want to do not because he had like valuables on him or whatever. 

AJ: Like that's what makes me think it was like, it was a personal attack. Somebody who had it out for him, somebody who knew him and wanted him dead for some reason. Like it was just a random person who's like robbing him, like stuff would be gone. 

Katie: Yeah. That's true. Why go through all that effort if you're not, I'm going to take something like his wallet or like some money? Like nothing was taken.

So it does feel like they wanted him dead. 

AJ: It has to be something about him that they want dead. Not like.

Steff: And also in the small community, nobody heard anything at like nine o'clock at night?

Katie: Yeah, I know. 

Steff: It just amazes me that nobody heard anything in such a small community. And everything's so close together.

Like you think somebody would heard something. 

Katie: I guess Stefano's like property was pretty big. And so probably if you were like out in the middle of the woods on top of a cliff nobody would hear you, but. Like Samuel lived in the cabin next door and he didn't wake up. Apparently he didn't find him until the morning.

They interviewed a neighbor with the closest neighbor, um, on the Fifth Estate . And he said, yeah, he didn't hear anything at all, either. So yeah, it wasn't like somebody, I don't know, like drunkenly, like running around or driving drunk. Cause people would hear that and like happened to land it at this place and kill him.

It was probably somebody sneaking up purposefully. So.

AJ: But they know it was at nine o'clock at night. Like they know at the time that he was killed? 

Katie: He talked to his son, Cristiano at nine o'clock that night. And then Samuel found him the next morning. 

AJ: So if he was like, if he was sleeping, like it could have been in the middle of the night.

Like, I don't know. Not necessarily if he's sleeping in someone, bludgeoned him, like, all it's gonna take is one or two hits and he's dead. So like, if he was sleeping, he's not gonna make much noise. You know what I mean? It's possible somebody in like another, the next house over, like, isn't gonna hear that necessarily.

It's not like it's somebody who's going to be screaming. You know,.

Katie: That's true. I don't know if I mentioned this, but Abigail was off the island that night. So not like she would have heard anything or woken up and been screaming. That's why it was Samuel that found him. 

AJ: But she was at, it was Abby or Abigail that got all the money.

Katie: Yeah. 

AJ: When he died? Okay. 

Steff: It's funny that you brought that up because that's when I first heard about this case and I was reading into this for first and they came to my mind like, well, she got all his money when he died. So, and nobody really looked into that. That'd be my first thing. People go for people's money, motive to kill somebody.

Katie: They did question her in the beginning.

And they obviously ruled her out. She wasn't there. If she was going to put a hit on him or something like, why not take her son with her wherever she was going. Right. Like I'm going to protect myself. And my son's still sleeping in the cabin. It's it seems kind of weird that she wasn't there. 

AJ: Like, could it have been a thing of like, it was a planned thing of like, okay. Allegedly, this is my theory.

I'm not saying I obviously don't know nothing about this case, so I'm just throwing things out there, but I'm thinking like, could have been a plan thing of where she's like, okay. She sends her son to kill him and she's like, well, I need to be away from the property because if I'm alive, like, you know what I mean?

AJ: Like if somebody comes in and bludgeoned him to death and I don't wake up and I don't do anything like that suspicious. So if I'm like off the island at the time of the murders, that it makes more sense, you know? Cause obviously if she was alive and she wasn't harmed in any way, then people would be like how would she not wake up? Or how would you not see something happening? You know? 

Katie: Yeah, that's true. I guess. So it's way easier for her just not to be there. 

Steff: They never did find a, murder weapon, right? 

Katie: No, they never did find a murder weapon. They, they never released the cause of death, but people speculate that it was cause there was blood spatter everywhere.

So something super violent. And yeah. And so, I mean, Cristiano is like, I mean, obviously he's still wondering, like, who would have a motive to kill his father? Cause like I said, people liked him and there wasn't like, he was a bad guy and the town came together. Like, let's get rid of this rich guy. So like Cristiano, just can't think of anybody that would have a motive to kill his father.

Like he's saying like you'd have to get all the way up to his cabin, which is like a cliff top cabin. You know, walk into the cabin, climb up the stairs to the loft where he slept and deliberately kill him and then not take anything and leave. So it's, it seems like it is very personal if that's what it was for some personal vendetta.

AJ: But I mean, there was that person too, that he put an axe to her, to her throat, like.

 Yeah, that could be someone who might have a reason why they would want him dead. 

Katie: Yeah, that's true. So that was Carla and her son, Marco, and it, and it seems weird that like, yeah, Marco is now dating Abigail. Who is his ex-wife .

AJ: Could they all be in it together?

Katie: I don't know. 

AJ: Allegedly, I don't know. 

Katie: I don't know. I mean, Carla was interviewed for the Fifth Estate, so she, you know, seemed like he wasn't. She was willing to talk, but the other two, like it's just weird that Abigail and Marco were like, so against talking to anybody and Samuel too, like he didn't say anything or threatened anybody but he refused to talk.

So it's like, somebody feels like somebody is hiding something. They don't want them to start digging. 

Steff: The way Marco and that email that way he was saying stuff like, he obviously doesn't want the truth to come out because someone in that close knit family, like Abigail or Samuel or Carla or Marco, I feel like somebody knows something and that's why they don't want Fifth Estate coming up and then figuring it out for themselves because they know something .

Katie: Marco in the email was like, if I find out that you're researching, like.

Basically, you're going to be in trouble. So it's like.

AJ: If you're totally innocent of something and like people are coming and researching and trying to get to the truth, like, why would you be angry at that? If you have nothing to hide, like, to me that's super weird. Or like, why would you refuse to be interviewed?

Like, yeah, you could argue, like maybe they just want to distance themselves. They want to move on. And they, but like if the killer's still at large in the small community, like why would you not want to like help maybe find the right person? Like you might have information or your interview might, you know, it's more suspicious to not want to give any interview.

Steff: Cause it didn't after a Cristiano put those, those flyers up, he came back and the flyers were all tore down.

Katie: Yeah. So it wasn't Cristiano that came back. It was one of the producers of the Fifth Estate has a cabin on Cortes Island. And then when he came back to kind of follow up on things, all of the posters that Cristiano had put up were all taken down and it was only like a couple of weeks later.

So it seems like someone deliberately went around and took those down. No new leads or information have come forward about this case at all. And that's kind of where it ends today. Like that's everything everybody knows. And so even those like redacted police reports and files that were handed over to the Fifth Estate really didn't shed more light on it.

So it's like the police don't really even know that much because there was nothing really in the reports. So yeah, it's kind of a weird, mysterious unsolved case that's still apparently open and they're still actively investigating, but.

AJ: That's super weird. I feel like how could it take 10 years to when you have a pool of a thousand people?

Katie: I know that's why it makes me think it was someone that doesn't live there, came for a little visit to do that. 

AJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, like. I don't know if you're a police officer, like, that'd be like an easy solve. Wouldn't it? Like you have a thousand possible- I feel like it's most likely someone in the community, is it not?

I feel like that's more reasonable. So if that's the case, then you have a thousand possible people to pick from, which is like a very, very small amount of people. It's not like a millions of people in a big city or like.

Katie: Yeah, but people could have moved away. New people have come. So it's not like it's exact same people that have been there for that whole time.

AJ: But like, that's why they should have done that initially as soon as it happened, like get...

Katie: Everybody's DNA.

Yeah. Yeah. Like in some cases they like talk to more than a thousand people. So it's not like unheard of that they could talk to the whole island, but maybe they did, but they still haven't pointed the finger at any particular person.

AJ: It reminds me of the, like that case that Steff did, the Leah Anderson case, the indigenous, uh, girl or woman who was like murdered.

Cause that was like, oh, it was a small town. And possibly it was someone in the community that kind of reminds me of this. It's like, I feel like, I mean.

Katie: They thought it'd be like an easy solve. 

AJ: Yeah. But that wouldn't obviously still unsolved, but like, I feel like there's a missed opportunity somewhere there with the police and maybe they didn't try hard enough or, you know, fucking police botching it as normal or maybe it is just totally like no leads at all or anything.

But you said that the, the murder, there was crime scene evidence in Samuel' s cabin.

Katie: That's what, yeah. According to one of the reports, that's what they found. They didn't say what evidence, but they found evidence in that cabin. Could have been like a bloody footprint or something. And, but that could have been like, he, he found.

You know, Stefano and then went back to his own cabin. You know what I mean? Like, so they never actually said it was like an item or if it was blood or whatever. They said there was evidence found. That's probably why they pointed to him. 

AJ: If it was truly like a really bloody crime scene, he could have just stepping in the cabin or on that, you know, could have got it all over his feet, even though he didn't do it.

So then yeah, it goes back to his cabin is going to leave evidence there. 

Katie: Yeah. So I don't really know what kind of evidence would be in there that they would suspect him for, but anyway, he hasn't been arrested or anything ever. So it's not like they have that much against him or anything at all. So yeah. That's where this one ends.

So the Chantel Gillade murder. This one is another unsolved murder that happened in British Columbia. And again, if there's not a lot of information about this one out there, either as well, even though it happened, you know, over a decade ago. So Chantel was born in 1967 and she was actually born Robert Gillade. She was raised in Niagara Falls, Ontario.

And she struggled to find her identity and was teased a lot growing up. And she didn't have the best support system. And so you can imagine how hard her life was kind of going through this identity crisis, kind of, you know, identifying as a woman, but being a man or a teenage boy when you want to be, you know, a teenage girl.

So I can't even imagine the struggles as, and if your family's not supportive, how much harder it would be. And so Chantel turns to drugs early in her life, like in her teens. And when she was 20 years old, she left home and went out on her own to try and start a new life. So she moved from Ontario to Vancouver shortly after she left home.

And like a lot of people in their early twenties, she like didn't settle down in one place. She jumped around a lot from place to place. And in Vancouver, she lived in a few different apartments. She lived in like the Granville Mall area and the west end of the city, if anyone's familiar with Vancouver at all.

And so Chantel found herself in the sex trade industry in Vancouver. And because of that, she was known to the police since 1988. So almost as soon as she moved there, she was kind of in that lifestyle. And the police knew who she was. So, like I said, Chantel was born Robert. And so during her years in Vancouver, she was actually in transition and was in the process of getting gender reassignment surgery.

Katie: So think back to the late eighties, early nineties, how different the perspective would have been from people struggling with gender identity, like in terms of what society thinks. Cause like, even today there's not as much acceptance as there should be, but it's much better than it was. So I can only imagine like how isolated she would have felt going through all that. And then being on her own way from her family, not being accepted as she grew up and now she's into drugs and sex work. So it's just like a tough life all around. It seems so because Chantel moved around a lot she never really had a permanent address. And so her family didn't have regular contact with her.

So this was like the time before social media and before everybody had a cell phone. So it would have been much more difficult for someone to keep track of a loved one that lived so far away, especially if that person, you know, really wasn't interested in keeping contact with their family. And so, you know, it's not like she didn't have a consistently in line or a consistent phone number that they could contact her at.

Katie: So they kind of lost that constant contact with Chantel. So Chantel worked in the sex trade for seven years. And so she was probably very street smart at this point. You know, doing what she did out on the streets every day. But in September of 1995, things changed for Chantel in a tragic way. It was September 1st, 1995 and a witness who was reportedly um, another sex worker said that Chantel was picked up at around 4:00 AM in the morning at Davie and Seymour streets in Vancouver. And she was picked up by a man in a black, 1989 Chevrolet pickup truck. This truck had attended windows and there was a very distinctive red stripe on the side of the canopy.

And when you look at pictures of this truck, it seems very distinctive. Like it's not just like your run of the mill pickup truck that could be anybody's. It's it seems like, you know, it was like a wonderful kind looking vehicle. But then just a few hours later after she was seen getting into this pickup truck around 7:30 AM, some construction workers were arriving to their job site and they found Chantel's body beaten to death. She was wrapping a blue tarp and some blankets, and she was like, just dumped in the alley on Homer street by a construction site. And the construction workers of course called 9 1 1. But right from the get-go, the investigation was kind of at a standstill because there wasn't much to go on because of you know, the line of work that Chantel was in, it was hard to keep track of her whereabouts. So she could have been with somebody after she got in that pickup truck that nobody saw. I mean, yeah, it's kind of a lifestyle she lived. And they did talk to several witnesses, but there was no hard evidence.

And the witnesses were all over the place. Like with the last time and place that they actually did see Chantel. Police did release a statement with the description of the person that was driving that black truck. And it was a white male in his early forties, heavyset with a double chin, dark brown collar-length hair with a receding hairline.

And yes. That's actually all we have in this case.

AJ: What? That's it? 

Katie: That's it. 

Steff: That's all there was literally like nothing has been done. 

Katie: Yeah. So it's definitely like gone cold. It's probably still open because I don't, but it's weird that they can't find who that guy was. They had a clear description and that truck, like I said, was very distinctive. . And when I was doing some research there, like on websleuths , some people were saying for whatever reason, they think that this could be linked to the serial killer from Toronto, Bruce McArthur.

Like she could have been a victim and some theories were, maybe she knew him from when she lived in Ontario. And then he happened to be in Vancouver or something. And also there was reports that Bruce was like a traveling salesman. So. It's not impossible that he could have been in Vancouver working and maybe didn't know her at all, but just picked her up and then murdered her.

Um, but there's no like no confirmation that he was ever in Vancouver at that time. So I don't know why they would point to him. It seems like unlikely, but that's just one of the theories out there about what happened to her .

AJ: It seems like kind of a stretch. I mean, it's possible, but like if you're throwing out his name, you can throw at any Canadian serial killer who was around at that time.

Katie: I know it's true. Yeah. But I mean maybe the way she was discarded fits his MO like, I didn't look into him at all to see how he threw out his other victims. 

AJ: I know a lot about that case. Big news in Toronto. 

Katie: Did he beat them and wrap them in tarps? 

AJ: No, he, uh, he's fucked up. Maybe we'll do an episode on him.

He was something else .

Steff: Didn't he recently go to jail like just recently. Like not that long ago, like a couple years. 

AJ: Yeah, it was 2018 he was arrested, charged with like eight murders. And then they think that he could have done had like dozens more .

Katie: When were his victims killed? Like what years? Maybe this was in the early years.

And it was one of, one of his first and he didn't have that like MO yet. He was just like, just warming up. 

AJ: One of the people who's like one of his official victims. Like they went missing back in 2010, I think, or 2011. But then they were saying like, they were looking into a bunch of cold cases from like the early two thousands or nineties, because he was like 60, when he was arrested.

Katie: Okay. Cause this was in 1995. So it could have been like an early one. It seems like a stretch. So I don't know why people would make that connection, but.

AJ: Yeah, it doesn't fit like it because I mean, his victims were gay men in Toronto. I don't know it's possible.

Katie: But I mean, he, this Chantel was a man that hadn't gone through transition yet.

So. I don't know how we would know that if you saw her, maybe you could tell, I don't know. Maybe he picked her up and then saw that she was actually a man. And that's why he did kill her. 

AJ: Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't really seem to fit. All of his official victims were killed in similar ways. And like.

Katie: But going back to Chantel's case, I think that as people have brought this up as well as I was looking, like, it seems more plausible that maybe someone picked her up thinking she was a woman found out that she was a man.

And like, you know, that infuriated them enough to kill her because they're like, well, and it was like obviously less acceptable back then. And somebody maybe just, you know, hated gay transgender people and just put them over the edge. So that's another option. Possibility, maybe it wasn't even the guy in that truck.

It could have been somebody else.

Steff: She was into drugs. Right. So it could have been like drug related as well. She like wronged somebody or something like that. And.

Katie: That's possible too. That's . Yeah. 

AJ: I just think like for the amateur sleuths or the Websleuths, like, I think like, I don't know, it's such a stretch to think it's Bruce McArthur.

So it's like, I feel like you have to have some sort of reason to point to someone you can't just say, oh, well he was a serial killer, so he could be tied. It's like, well, yeah, well, anyone could be tied. Any serial killer from that time could be tied to any murder. If you fit it within a story that you're trying to push.

Katie: He wasn't even in the Vancouver area.

AJ: Yeah. Like if it was someone in, if it was, if this story took place in Toronto, then maybe you could make that conclusion. But.

Katie: Yeah, so it doesn't seem to fit. Bruce at all. So yeah. 

AJ: And then just say like, oh, well he could have traveled to Vancouver. It's like, well, anyone could have traveled to anywhere.

Steff: It's just sad that nobody has figured out, like what happened to her. Like who killed her? And she's just this person who will probably never find who killed her. 

Katie: I know. She was only 28. And so, and she had like this, you know, kind of like hard upbringing. And then it all comes to this like tragic end before she had a chance to like really turn her life around and yeah.

AJ: Yeah. 

Katie: It's just like this one's definitely seems like it was a random, some random person came along and killed her for whatever reason. Not like the Stefano one where it probably was somebody that knew him. Yeah. So two unsolved cases from BC. That's it. 

AJ: When you said that's all you have for the case it's like literally nothing. Like, okay. Her body was found here. Don't really know anything. Um, now I'm trying to go back to the description you gave of that person. Can you give the description again? 

Katie: Yeah, he was like guy in his forties. Heavy set with a double chin and then, um, he, and he had like collar-length brown hair.

With a receding hairline.

AJ: I was trying to think of that fits Bruce McArthur's description. Not really well, he would have been in his forties at that time. Cause he was in his sixties when he was arrested 20 years later. And he was a heavyset person with a possible double chin, but he didn't have shoulder. I mean, he could have had shoulder length, brown hair, long hair at that time.

I don't know. He had like short white hair when he was arrested, but a lot can happen in 20 years. Did you look them up? 

Katie: Yeah. I just looked at him and he does have like a receding hairline, but he it's short and completely white. And.

AJ: But he's also 60. So he's going to have a receding hairline.

Katie: Yeah. He is like a bigger guy. 

AJ: Yeah. 

Steff: Wouldn't , it be crazy if like five years down the road or like a month down the road or whatever that comes out, that he actually did kill her and like coincidence. I'm not saying he did, but I'm just saying like.

AJ: Sometimes internet sleuths can like, be really interesting and can like make connections that you wouldn't otherwise think.

But then sometimes you can just be like, okay, you're grasping for straws. 

Katie: I know. This one really doesn't have any other direction to go on. Like, it could be any direction because there's not enough evidence or things released that could be like that can't be it. Cause like, oh, maybe it could be because we don't know anything about it at all.

So I can't say it's not for sure. We don't know for sure, obviously, but.

AJ: Intrigued.

Katie: It's unlikely that it was him.

AJ: I hope to find out more. 

Katie: Yeah. So hopefully, um, you know, these two cases are still ongoing and we can find the families can find some resolution eventually .

That's it for this episode, if you like what you hear, you can find us on all social media platforms.

You find us on Twitter @crimefamilypod1 Instagram at Crime Family Podcast. Facebook at Crime Family Podcast. And you can also email us if there's like a case you want to bring to our attention, just like the Stefano case. Let us know. You can email us at crimefamilypodcast@gmail.com. See you next time.

AJ: Bye.